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Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by ArmandGrillet on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @05:05AM (#18022881)
I can also see the bug on macOS with Safari 12.0.

I find it quite worrying that devs already wrote a lib to fix the issue but didn't fill a bug report to Apple and shared it on SO. Anyway, a trendy HN post might be enough to get the attention of some Apple devs and I've pinged a dev just in case: https://twitter.com/ArmandGrillet/status/1042339847384518656

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by tomxor on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @08:37AM (#18023722)
> I find it quite worrying that devs already wrote a lib to fix the issue but didn't fill a bug report to Apple and shared it on SO.

It is worrying... but as someone who has filed my fair share of bug reports to all the major browser projects it's also understandable. Filling good bug reports takes effort, especially for the more obscure ones to produce small and reliable test cases. In my experience only the largest projects have the man power to acknowledge let alone address all bug reports. I abandoned reporting bugs to IE, Edge and Safari long ago because this effort often goes to waste.

I get it though, browsers are one of the largest most complex incoherent pieces of software everyone uses today, but that's also why I think only fully open source (well engaged) projects work well in this area.

As an aside: This is the same reason I think the browser needs to get simple again (without loosing capability) - RE James Mickens thoughts on this. Then browser diversity and man power becomes a moot point.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by hnruss on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:02AM (#18024636)
I’ve reported a few browser bugs myself, none have been fixed (even years later). I’ll still do it, though, because it may help someone else out someday.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by mh8h on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @12:54PM (#18025618)
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by scarface74 on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @01:34PM (#18025989)
According to the linked SO post, it has already been corrected in a technology preview.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by saudioger on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:22AM (#18024803)
You could also just yell into a pillow. Half the time it's just as effective as reporting a bug to Apple without knowing someone there.

You can spend a lot of time writing a good bug report for Apple; it's annoying that they don't bother to respond at all a lot of the time.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by JangoSteve on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @02:04PM (#18026288)
I don't understand what the worrying part is. The original poster of the SO question was asking a question. They didn't know if it was a bug or them misunderstanding the intended functionality. The subject literally ends with, "is bug or feature?"

The people who answered it explain that it's a bug, thereby answering the question, and expand as to why they think it's a bug. One person figured out a patch. The bug was already filed and fixed nearly a month ago but doesn't seem to have been released yet to the current versions of Safari.

If there's already a bug filed and marked fixed but you can see that it isn't fixed yet for the people using Safari, and it matters to you, why would sharing it be worrisome?

You could argue that the person who answered with a patch didn't know the bug was already filed with Apple, and so they should have sought out how to file it before sharing it. But I think it ignores how intimidating it can be for someone to file an official bug report with a hugely popular piece of software maintained by one of the largest companies in the world. It's even more intimidating if you've done it before and the report you filed ended up being wrong (many maintainers are not very considerate when responding to mistaken bug reports, which can wreak havoc on a developer's self esteem).

Meanwhile you have platforms like StackOverflow and Hacker News which vastly lower the bar in terms of needing to be right, since they operate more as conversation facilitators than official registers of legitimate bugs. It's much easier to share what you think you've found with a group of your peers, than it is to go on record telling a group of experts that they've made a mistake in the thing that they're experts on.

I don't know if the outcome is worrisome or not, but it definitely seems expected to me... even inevitable.

It's the same reason you talk with your friends about how annoyed you are with potholes not being filled before you take your concerns to a town hall meeting. It's a way to refine your thoughts in a low-stakes settings with peers before formalizing an issue to run up the ladder.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by lolc on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:26AM (#18023383)
If I must fix it for my users right now I must use a shim. Letting Apple know about this will probably allow me to remove the shim after months have passed. I can see why the priorities are on the shim here.

I also just checked and you need an Apple-ID to report a defect in Safari. Which I for one don't have.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by mnem on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:41AM (#18023457)
I can’t think of any bug system that doesn’t require you to log in to report a bug.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by lolc on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:49AM (#18023482)
You're right, requiring sign-up is common for these.

The only bug tracker I use that doesn't have this barrier is the Debian one.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by avar on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @08:16AM (#18023606)
Also the case with any RT-based tracker (Perl core, CPAN), Jira (depending on its configuration, you can create issues via E-Mail), GitLab can also be configured to allow bug creation via an E-Mail address.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @10:35AM (#18024453)
On your last point, it takes a few seconds to create an Apple ID and sign up for a free developer account. Both parts together can be done in less than a minute.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by Klathmon on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @10:46AM (#18024521)
And then you have to report the bug yourself as you can't view other people's bug reports, and if they close it as a dupe then you need to ask special permission to view the other bug, and if they grant you access then you can follow it for status updates.

And that's if you can even find the right place to report this kind of thing. Some in this thread are pointing to the webkit bugtracker which I've never used, but I have used and had issues closed as dupes in the apple bugtracker with no real info other than it's a dupe of another link I can't view...

It's not impossible, but it's a lot more time than I could see having to spend on something like this right now.

And I don't think it's fair to criticize someone for not wanting to put that work in, especially if they found a workaround and already posted it somewhere publicly viewable. I'd much rather get a well written bug report from someone that has the time and cares rather than 10 half-assed reports from people who just want to make one so they don't get yelled at or to view the status of another bug.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by om2 on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @12:00PM (#18025155)
https://bugs.webkit.org Doesn’t requir an Apple ID and also has public visibility (except security bugs).

Update: the bug has already been filed in both the WebKit bug tracker and Radar, so no need for further reports. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=188794

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:14AM (#18024721)
You get to decide yourself how good of a job to do on your bug reports, so I don’t see where the problem is. If it bothers you that it takes work and you can’t see everything that Apple sees, just let those of us who don’t mind a bit of typing effort take care of it.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by Klathmon on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:37AM (#18024969)
>If it bothers you that it takes work and you can’t see everything that Apple sees, just let those of us who don’t mind a bit of typing effort take care of it.

I completely agree, which is why I was just pointing out that the "it only takes a few minutes" is technically true, but a little misleading as nobody is going to be able to write a good bug report, create an apple account, report the bug, have it most likely get closed as a dupe, request access to the dupe, get access to the dupe, subscribe to the issue and wait for it to be fixed and released in "a few minutes".

Whereas making a polyfill could realistically happen in 30 minutes or so, and publishing it to NPM if you feel like it maybe another 10 if you are familiar with the process. And I don't feel like people should be criticized for not wanting to jump through Apple's hoops to report a bug and have it get fixed upstream when the alternative is not only faster, easier, and more public, but also can get deployed to your users right now.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by lolc on Thursday September 20, 2018 @03:36AM (#18030445)
Oh yes it's fast to sign up for one more account with some third-party I don't want to be affiliated with. What's in it for me?

Speaking of that: I do actually maybe have an Apple-ID account because a clueless person with a name similar to mine used one of my Email-Addresses to sign up with Apple.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by tolmasky on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:10AM (#18024695)
In theory you absolutely need both, and the library fixes the most pressing issue: that your site might be broken today, and more importantly will remain broken forever, unless the user chooses to upgrade, since Safari does not do automatic over-the-air updates (ala Chrome on desktop) but instead bundles it’s updates with OS versions on mobile, and updates that may or may not be set to automatic on macOS. As such, you should in theory now always have a bug-detect in your code (simple to write, make two identical 2-item arrays, reverse one, check for a difference), and apply the fix if needed.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @06:06AM (#18023117)
I think there's a lot of people on SO that try and snipe topics like this to boost their own CV.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by abelyao on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @09:59AM (#18024200)
I am the publisher of SO, that polyfill answer maybe want to get more star on github. I don't know what's means of the ployfill to this big bug.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by BonesJustice on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:22AM (#18023368)
Does Apple have a halfway decent public issue tracker? I don’t recall ever seeing one, but I’ve never gone out of my way to look for one either.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by smackfu on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:36AM (#18023439)
I would say it’s exactly “halfway decent”. There’s very little feedback and bugs tend to get closed as duplicates but since it’s not public you can’t monitor the state of the duolicates.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by zwerdlds on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @10:18AM (#18024323)
Having had direct experience with this, this is the reason people don't file bugs with Apple. It is an exercise in futility.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by RKearney on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:27AM (#18024858)
I reported a UX bug with the new iOS feature Screen Time when the first developer beta hit. Through the entire beta releases the only updates I got were “we pushed a new release, can you test again?”.

Needless to say the bug made it to the final release of iOS 12. I’m done filling out bug reports for this reason.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by iforgotpassword on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @04:47PM (#18027570)
Same here. I have a little "blog" where I collect such things (with workaround if any), and then hope google would redirect people there suffering the same issue.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:06AM (#18024673)
Those people are operating on a flawed understanding of the process though... it’s not futile.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by acdha on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @09:38AM (#18024070)
Ask for status updates if you need them. They’re usually prompt and I figure if more people do they’ll start feeling the cost of not automating it.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by icodestuff on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @03:24PM (#18026969)
A year or two ago they started telling you at least the status of the original bug, open, closed or fixed.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:05AM (#18024664)
That being said, filing bug reports that end up being duplicates is not wasted time, because they aggregate information from duplicate reports into the main report tracking that issue.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by cowsandmilk on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @08:30AM (#18023678)
For WebKit? Yes https://bugs.webkit.org
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by nraynaud on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @09:40AM (#18024082)
No, their bug management is not friendly at all.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by jaegerpicker on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:34AM (#18023429)
Yep it's called radar, it's here: https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by exikyut on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @09:03AM (#18023852)
radar isn't public. You need an Apple ID linked to a developer account to view reports.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @10:29AM (#18024406)
...which is free and takes about ten seconds to sign up for. You can only view your own reports, but on the other hand they do fix bugs.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by exikyut on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:40PM (#18028532)
This I did not know. Thanks.

Hmm, they must get so many duplicates...

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Thursday September 20, 2018 @01:14AM (#18029943)
Yeah they get dupes but they encourage them because they aggregate the information so that new information from one report fleshes out the missing information from other reports.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by jaegerpicker on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @10:43AM (#18024500)
It is public, it's free to use and sign up for. The account costs zero dollars to sign up for, so I don't get the complaint.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by xnyan on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:26AM (#18024853)
It’s the exact opposite of public. You have to have an account, and even then You can only see bugs you submitted.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by donarb on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @12:29PM (#18025399)
Yep, Apple takes privacy seriously.

Bug reports sometimes also contain proprietary code that help Apple pinpoint the bug. If you worked for a company and were working on a brand new software product, would you want your competitors to have the ability to search bug reports for your email address (or all addresses at *@xyz.com), knowing that you are having trouble with a specific API?

BTW, Apple Developer Relations has updated its privacy policy for bug reports where data you submit will be deleted from inactive bug reports after a period of time.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by duskwuff on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @05:15PM (#18027783)
A private bug tracker also means that Apple can use the same bug tracker to collect reports about devices or functionality which isn't available to the public.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by exikyut on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:39PM (#18028529)
This I did not know. Thanks.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by olliej on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:38AM (#18024986)
For webkit? Bugzilla.webkit.org
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by untog on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:59AM (#18023533)
Last I checked Apple's bug reporting system wasn't public. I really wish they'd change that.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @10:31AM (#18024420)
You and many black hat hackers who would love to read through a trove of exploit reports and potentially personal data submitted in uploaded system diagnostics logs.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by xnyan on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:30AM (#18024891)
Security through obscurity is is not useless, but its not much protection either. There are virtually countless open source projects with public bug tracking, many of which are highly public critical internet facing applications used by millions.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by donarb on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @12:37PM (#18025473)
It's not necessarily security through obscurity. It's more of a privacy thing and prevents companies from mining bug reports for information about what types of software competitors are working on. Bug reports also contain code and projects that help Apple find the cause of a bug.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by TheDong on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @02:52PM (#18026710)
The simple solution is a two-tiered system.

The submitter can check "This report is security sensitive or has confidential information that should not be shared further than necessary to fix the bug."

Most projects have this in the form of a default-public bug tracker, and private emails to the developer or security@ mailing list.

It's not difficult to have both private and public bugs where the submitter chooses which is appropriate.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Thursday September 20, 2018 @01:02AM (#18029902)
I love it when people think they know better than Apple, and propose simplistic non-solutions as solutions, as if some amazing people at Apple had not already spent countless hours thinking this through at a deep level.

The submitter doesn't always know when they are submitting sensitive or confidential information. And that's not going to be fixed any time soon or with any simple solution. There are system diagnostics reports that can be many megabytes and contain potentially confidential information, and it would be entirely unreasonable to expect a user, even a developer user, to know how to trawl through all of these reports with a level of expertise to discern every possible case of leakage.

And that's just the personal / private information... which, by the way, Apple from what I've seen seems to strive to keep OUT of the diagnostic reports, but that doesn't mean they are perfect at this. And that doesn't even begin to address the information that might be, totally unknown to the submitter, exploitable in other ways.

As far as what other projects have, macOS is a highly complex operating system along with a tightly integrated ecosystem of apps and services, which is designed to, and relied on to, "just work"... while most other systems are either much smaller, or are not maintaining a level of smooth operation and security that can match the "it just works" level of reliability standard that macOS aims for. So maybe the bug reporting systems of all those other projects are appropriate for those other projects, but that doesn't make those systems and their practices appropriate for macOS.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by natch on Thursday September 20, 2018 @08:07PM (#18036333)
I wasn't talking about security through obscurity, so regurgitating that point helps nothing. It is typical in the industry to keep exploit information under wraps until it is fixed. And the other part of my comment was about personal and private information.

Those countless open source projects aren't up to the same standard as macOS in terms of a combination of complexity plus the expectation of "it just works"... note I said the combination of these two things, not just one of them at a time.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by untog on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @05:26PM (#18027856)
Like the Chromium bug tracker, you mean?
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by saagarjha on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @05:55AM (#18023069)
Works on iOS 12.1’s Safari as well, but that’s to be expected assuming that Apple shipped that without knowledge of this bug.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by nabakin on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @09:32AM (#18024028)
Looks like its been fixed in the new Safari Preview https://i.imgur.com/A6lm25a.png
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by saurik on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @12:03PM (#18025175)
As noted by someone else (but only as a new top-level comment), this but was already filed and already fixed on WebKit a week ago and is rdar://problem/43637041.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by chrischen on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:44AM (#18025041)
Apparently it’s already fixed in Safari dev preview.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by matkinz on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @05:11AM (#18022899)
>I find it quite worrying that devs already wrote a lib to fix the issue but didn't fill a bug report to Apple

Why should anybody work for a megacorp for free?

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by jsmeaton on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @05:42AM (#18023015)
This is a strange response. Reporting a bug is likely easier than creating and maintaining a package. It’s also the better solution for users, rather than getting website operators to install yet another lib and then remember to remove it once a fix does land.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by lolc on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:21AM (#18023360)
If you need the shim anyway to fix it for your users it doesn't particularly matter to you at what point Apple fixes this. The fix will take months to percolate in the best case anyway. It seems you also need an Applie-ID to even report a defect.

So to me the unwillingness to help Apple with this is not a strange response. Especially considering Apple made Safari closed-source.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by jsmeaton on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:23AM (#18023374)
I find the response weird because the commenter had an unwillingness to do free work for a company yet publishes a package that fixes their mistake.
Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by lolc on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:35AM (#18023434)
Writing a bug report is work. Writing the shim is work.

The bug report doesn't fix the problem right away. The shim fixes the problem right away.

Reporting the bug will cause a fix for everybody eventually. Adding the shim will fix it for me.

If we want to be nice to Apple - and get rid of the shim eventually - sure, we write a bug report. But if we can fix it before reporting, that gets priority.

Re:iOS 12 Safari Array reverse bug by saagarjha on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @06:03AM (#18023104)
You have a separate comment that decries the use of a polyfill. So what is the solution you’re looking for?