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Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by duxup on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:43PM (#17989734)
It looks like a cool product, but ...

I'm not a mechanical keyboard guy. I much prefer something like the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic ... but it always made me sad that that style of keyboard didn't have more competition.

The enthusiast keyboard scene seems to be mostly mechanical and I kinda want something that feels more "in-between" what I think of as a heavy mechanical and lighter laptop thing...

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by anonuser123456 on Friday September 14, 2018 @04:00PM (#17990441)
I used an MS ergonomic natural 4000 for a long time. I switched to a kinesis advantage a few years back and I will never go back.

Not all mechanical keyboard switches have the same feel. The advantage uses cherry brown, which is quiet and requires relatively low force.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by uomopertica on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:05PM (#17990934)
I also recently switched to an orthonormal ergonomic keyboard and I'm having a very hard time going back to typing on non-aligned qwerties.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by michaelbuckbee on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:04PM (#17990928)
Are cherry browns less force than the MS Natural keyboard? or was that in comparison to other cherry switches?
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by anonuser123456 on Friday September 14, 2018 @11:11PM (#17992768)
My perception is that cherry browns require less force than the MS natural 4000. I say this after comparing the two side by side.

There is another advantage to the cherry browns (or mechanical keyboards in general)... they last a LOT longer. I've had my main work Kinesis for 4 years. The key strokes feel the same today as the day I got it. I would burn through an MS natural 4000 at a rate of 1/year; the spacebar & alt/ctrl keys would become too sticky after.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by tuxlifan on Saturday September 15, 2018 @09:32AM (#17994228)
I have the UHK with Cherry MX Brown switches and my old MS Natural (105KB?) which I had purchased second hand.

I feel that my UHK keys require less force than the Natural.

My Natural has a bit more prominent click points (which require more bundled force at a certain point) but an overall "stickier/mushy" feeling (to be fair, I hadn't cleaned it a lot :)).

My UHK keys feel more springy and one might not particularly notice the click point but I still get good tactile and auditory feedback.

It took me about 2 days to get comfortable with the new keys. Overall the UHK feels smoother and less strenuous.

I hope you can make some sense out of the above, otherwise please feel free to ask for clarification :)

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by frostburg on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:46PM (#17989768)
You might like Topre switches (I do, my daily keyboard is a Novatouch), but I'm not aware of "ergonomic" Topre boards.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by ianai on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:09PM (#17989973)
An ergo topre would be nice, but I don’t think they exist. I very much need my kinesis.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by lallysingh on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:40PM (#17990254)
There is one made in Japan, but it's hard to get. Called the uTron.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by bschwarz on Saturday September 15, 2018 @02:07AM (#17993218)
Unfortunately the μTRON was discontinued in early 2017 and finding one online now is incredibly rare - I know because I've been looking ever since!

Some TRON heritage lives on in the Esrille NISSE and the Keyboardio Model 01, although they don't feature Topre switches.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by chris11 on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:00PM (#17989897)
I picked up a mechanical keyboard, because it looked cool. I liked the idea of a higher quality keyboard, programmable functionality looked potentially useful, and I liked the looks of some custom key cap sets.

Unfortunately I was not happy with it at all. For some reason I ended up getting hand fatigue. It's probably a combination of usually typing with my wrists on my desk and a habit of bottoming out, and switch type. But I ended up boxing the keyboard back up.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by ztjio on Saturday September 15, 2018 @03:29AM (#17993402)
This echoes my first experience trying to switch to mechanical. But after a few retries I figured out what I needed.

1) Switches can make a huge difference and there are WAY more choices than often implied. Seems almost everyone references 3 types but there are more. I go for a non-clicking, extremely short trigger threshold style because I have typed on laptop keyboards for 20+ years and the light touch is what I know. Specifically, I'm using Cherry RGB Speed Silver.

2) Get a wrist rest. You probably never needed one before but if you have a mechanical with a normal depth of case, it makes a huge difference if you can't adapt easily.

And don't compromise on your layout. If you don't like ergo don't get one. If you NEED certain keys, get them. There are tons of choices out there, many more than you see listed on popular sites or stores. Sometimes you have to partly build them. It's not very hard. There are plenty of kits that don't even require soldering.

In the end I'm running a GK64, with the aforementioned switches, and I've never been happier with a keyboard.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by nine_k on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:44PM (#17990281)
+1.

I want an ergonomical keyboard with quiet action. Ideally it would combine the feel of the old Thinkpad keyboards with the ergonomic layout of an ErgoDox keyboard.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by driverdan on Friday September 14, 2018 @06:32PM (#17991608)
Browns and clears are both quiet. You can make them even quieter by adding O-rings to the keycap stems.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by brazzledazzle on Friday September 14, 2018 @09:32PM (#17992446)
Clears are probably my favorite so far. I despise browns. Every key press feels and sounds like two slightly rough pieces of plastic are grinding against each other. I miss the loud keys on the old IBM boards but my coworkers or family would kill me.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by atomi on Saturday September 15, 2018 @01:08AM (#17993069)
I like browns because I can feel the actuation. That bump is an assurance that I can proceed with the next key. And if you bottom out your keys you can always add o rings.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by brazzledazzle on Sunday September 16, 2018 @02:57PM (#18000429)
I bottom out like a barbarian. I think it’s fair to say that you type faster than I do if that actuation is a concern.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by swampangel on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:01PM (#17989902)
There are "low profile mechanical" switches now that are more chiclet-like, but I'm not sure if they've been put into an ergo design yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lAokeiYbzo

I personally like Matias Quiet Click switches for a good feeling, quiet switch. But the keys and keyboards from Matias have a deserved reputation for being finicky.

I have a Matias Ergo Pro - which I otherwise like - but once in a while keys on the left half will chatter until the board is unplugged. https://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by ungzd on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:16PM (#17991029)
Just rubber o-rings on regular switches (instead of low-profile switches) might be enough to reduce travel length, and as a bonus to make bottoming out soft and silent, like on rubber dome keyboards. At least on MX, not sure about dampening rings on Matias.

Also, to add "chickletness", there are XDA and G20 keycap profiles, which are, AFAIK, especially popular to put on "ergonomic" splitted boards.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by coredog64 on Friday September 14, 2018 @09:59PM (#17992543)
Same here. When it works, it’s great. But a bunch of keys either don’t register at all or will stick. Unplugging etc. doesn’t fix so I’m mostly left with a $200 conversation starter.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by chx on Friday September 14, 2018 @05:25PM (#17991095)
The Ergo Pro can be used vertically. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79810.0
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by pizzazzaro on Friday September 14, 2018 @06:09PM (#17991441)
Ergodox EZ lets you pick which keyboard switches you prefer. Its another crowdfunded split keyboard, but fully opensource.

Cherry MX Brown switches are normally recommended for very light activation pressure and "super-fluid motion". That is an option available.

You can order parts for yourself, make it yourself, and everything. It is opensource hardware, built around the "teensy" opensource controller. But it ends up cheaper just to buy the keyboard unless you want to build something custom.

While it sports up to 32 custom layers, it does lack a dedicated hardware module for a mouse. It is completely programmable.

I only mention it because I love mine.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by hydandata on Friday September 14, 2018 @07:19PM (#17991874)
I have Ergodox EZ and absolutely love it as well.

IMHO Dampened Cherry Red switches configuration is almost as good as Topre if not better.

The ability to program it has been the killer feature for me, I have a layout that works absolutely perfectly for me! f.e. dual function keys! I have ' set as dual function key so if I hold it is Shift, if I just tap it is ', in place of usual Caps Lock location I also have Shift, having moved both Cmd/Win keys to usual Shift location. Home row Shift has improved the typing comfort so much! I also remapped function keys and made many other tweaks.

Also have alt/ctrl mapped with dual key feature to z/ctrl x/alt and ./alt //ctrl, this way all modifier keys are clustered together and easily accessible. I don't think I can ever go back! the mind did get used to switching between the two layouts though, so thankfully I can still use the laptop keyboard on the go :)

For anybody interested you can have a look at their configurator https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/keyboard_layouts/new

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by leghifla on Saturday September 15, 2018 @03:08AM (#17993352)
I have an Ergodox EZ, with many customizations, and I love it too.

I wanted to use dual function keys, but as soon as there is one such key on the keyboard, I feel a delay for all the key presses. It is ok for the dual function key (the firmware needs to wait to decide a tap or hold), but not for all the other keys. So I avoid using this in my layouts.

Maybe this has changed recently? I have not tweaked my layout for about 6 months.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by hydandata on Saturday September 15, 2018 @11:59AM (#17994753)
I cannot notice any delay at 100+ wpm, but one thing I had to get used to is typing key combinations faster/holding the key for the right duration, I still lift a bit too fast a few times per week, f.e. getting 'a instead of A, but it is definitely becoming second nature, and even if I cannot eliminate it completely the ergonomics of home row shift, and other handy dual function keys, makes it still totally worth it for me.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by jseliger on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:37PM (#17990222)
I'm not a mechanical keyboard guy. I much prefer something like the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic ... but it always made me sad that that style of keyboard didn't have more competition.

I tried one, but I believe that's the Bluetooth-only version that never quite seemed to work right on MacOS. Pity MS didn't make a wired version.

Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by krzyk on Saturday September 15, 2018 @05:56AM (#17993692)
Actually it is not Bluetooth, it is has an USB dongle that does RF
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by hakona on Saturday September 15, 2018 @09:30AM (#17994220)
You can get pretty much any feel you want from a mechanical keyboard. For soft you go with the "non-tactile" i.e. "linear" keys like cherry mx red. You can also get rubber rings to put on the stem of the swich so you get a softer landing. Available in different hardness, shore a40 or a50.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by aidenn0 on Friday September 14, 2018 @04:43PM (#17990767)
Have you tried cherry mx reds? Those feel like a smoother version of what you get on a standard keyboard.
Re:Ultimate Hacking Keyboard by village-idiot on Saturday September 15, 2018 @08:49AM (#17994086)
I use a Kinesis at work and a sculpt at home. They’re close, but the Kinesis is better imho.