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Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by sarabande on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:42AM (#17916679)
Which countries?
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by Someone on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:28AM (#17916926)
Certainly the EU. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A...:

”8. Natural and artificial room lighting

8.1. Workplaces must as far as possible receive sufficient natural light and be equipped with artificial lighting adequate for the protection of workers' safety and health.

[…]

10. Windows and skylights

10.1. It must be possible for workers to open, close, adjust or secure windows, skylights and ventilators in a safe manner. When open, they must not be positioned so as to constitute a hazard to workers.”

Effective since December 31, 1992 (two years later for Greece)

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by ensignavenger on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:13AM (#17917569)
"as far as possible"...

I wonder how that is interpreted? Does that exclude buildings older than the code? Does it prevent new buildings from being constructed without these features? It would always be "possible" if enough money was spent on it (and you ignore other considerations, like historical values)...

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by pjc50 on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:57AM (#17917979)
It essentially means that you have to have a real reason not to have windows, not just "it was slightly cheaper". So new buildings would get them, intentionally windowless spaces (darkrooms, freezers) are allowed for a purpose, and adapted historical buildings are allowed.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by biztos on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @10:31AM (#17918289)
It definitely does not apply to restaurant kitchens. For older buildings not at all -- plenty of totally windowless and even basement kitchens -- and even for newer buildings I think "serving station open to the restaurant floor" counts as "natural light" (and actually isn't all that bad).

Where I just had lunch they get natural light whenever a waiter opens the door to bring some food out.

Source: I live in the EU and have been inside a lot of restaurant kitchens in both Germany and Hungary.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by Someone on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:46AM (#17917869)
It’s the EU, so you can count on it being reasonable.

The example I know of where it isn’t enforced is of people working inside a refrigerator. I can imagine security conscious jobs and radiology departments also may be exceptions.

It also doesn’t mean all rooms need windows or even natural light. Toilet rooms often don’t, for example, and storage rooms often only have windows high in the walls or in the ceiling (typically way more than in “a room with a view” in Cupertino :-) )

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by InternetOfStuff on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:43AM (#17917842)
> I wonder how that is interpreted?

* If the nature of what goes on inside a room conflicts with the presence of windows -- e.g. labs (say, a laser lab)

* if the room isn't meant to be used by humans (e.g. storage closets, server rooms) -- If humans sometimes enter such rooms that's OK, but it can't be their "assigned workplace".

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by siruncledrew on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @10:22AM (#17918210)
It makes sense considering the lesser sunlight hours certain countries receive (especially parts of UK, Iceland, Germany, Scandinavia): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_sunshine_hour...

Sunlight is not only good for morale, but also good for health.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by WalterSear on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @10:48AM (#17918454)
The direct physiological benefits are blocked by glass, which is naturally UV opaque, fwiw.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by nitrogen on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @11:12AM (#17918682)
There is some physiological benefit just from the eyes being exposed to very bright and/or blue light at the right times, too.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by mrweasel on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:47AM (#17916699)
It has been illegal to stuff people into room with no natural light in Denmark for at least 40 years. It can just be a skylight if you're in warehouse or factory.

I believe that office workers are required to have actual windows and honestly I don't think even the employers think it's right to have windowless offices

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by Kalroth on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:32AM (#17916955)
Yup, the Danish Working Environment Authority is pretty clear about it.

There has to be a source of natural daylight and there must be clear windows that you can see through. Of course there are always exceptions, but they are just that.

https://arbejdstilsynet.dk/da/regler/indeklima/belysning-og-...

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by Aaargh20318 on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:04AM (#17917124)
> I don't think even the employers think it's right to have windowless offices

As an employee, I hate this rule and would love a windowless office. Right now, I just keep the curtains closed all day.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by socksy on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:32AM (#17917305)
Well, you can close a curtain, you can't usually get a sledgehammer and knock a hole in the wall if your office doesn't have a window and you want one.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by mrweasel on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:35AM (#17917325)
Could you explain why? Do you just prefer a dark room or are you distracted by activities outside your window?

I can't really imagine not being look out a windows during the day. Also I think I'd feel trapped without windows, not that I can just jump out my 3rd. floor window.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by tialaramex on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:44AM (#17917373)
Not your parent poster, but for me the external variable light is mostly a nuisance. It can be too bright and cause glare, or it's not enough and I need artificial lighting anyway. So I just blot it out, I work from home and I do the same across my entire home, blinds block external light and I use artificial light all day.

Sunlight is nice if I'm going to be outside admiring nature, but it's crap for reading, playing video games, any number of activities I want to do at home.

The cheap place I'll be staying on vacation in a couple of weeks offered a "free upgrade" to a room with a window and I was like "I don't understand - what would I in theory see out of this window?" because it's in a city centre, and obviously as a tourist I shall go out and look at museums and galleries and stuff, I shan't be sat there all day looking out the window, so it seems pointless. The other person I'm going with likes windows, so they'd already paid a little bit extra to have a window anyway. Crazy.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by mrweasel on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:54AM (#17917425)
Thanks, that makes sense. It's not for me personally, I really like being able to look out and see the light change during the day. There's nothing worse that going outside after work and not having realized that it's gotten dark without me noticing.

On a side note I don't think I'd stay in a hotel/motel room without windows, that just seems creepy. For the same reason I don't book room on ferries without windows, even though I'd just see the water.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by dekhn on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:32AM (#17917741)
for me the bright light hurts my eyes and makes it hard to see the screen (eyestrain).
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:51AM (#17917408)
Let me guess, you use dark themes right?
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by mooss on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:01AM (#17916780)
I did an internship last year which consisted in writing unit tests for a raytracing library that was among other things - I was told - used to determine if buildings were on paper getting enough sunlight according to european standards.

I'm not sure whether they were talking about EU regulations or about the regulations of specific european countries.

Edit: typos

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by dithering on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:04AM (#17916797)
From my basement in London: Probably specific countries.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by rsynnott on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:15AM (#17916852)
I think there are at least two separate issues here; some countries have health and safety laws requiring natural light, while others require natural light in newly-built offices (as a condition of planning etc). Can you build an office in London these days that doesn't have natural light in the main spaces? I'd be sceptical.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by dithering on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:12AM (#17917553)
Old building. Managed offices, completely gutted internally last year. I don't know if that wound count as new build. Probably not.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by rsynnott on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @12:05PM (#17919193)
No, definitely not. You get away with all sorts of things with a sufficiently old building.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by quietbritishjim on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:13AM (#17916836)
Is it an old building? There are some basement offices in London, and presumably other countries, with either no windows or pointlessly small/ineffective ones (like those little glass blocks you see on the pavement occasionally). I wonder if light regulations would have to have exclusions for old buildings that are impractical to change (a bit like minimum platform widths at train stations don't apply to some old stations).
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @11:02AM (#17918602)
There are planning regulations in the UK preventing new developments from "stealing" light from existing buildings, there's also a Right to Light.

Eg http://www.right-of-light.co.uk/services/calculations-and-re...

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by xxpor on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @11:30AM (#17918861)
>There are planning regulations in the UK preventing new developments from "stealing" light from existing buildings,

Sounds like backdoor NIMBYism

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by vlehto on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:07AM (#17917158)
In Finland the building code requires that all office spaces and apartments have a window.

It's possible to circumvent this by putting an office into space that was designed as storage or as factory. But you will then usually also lack toilets, kitchen and decent air condition. If you do the renovation to get those things and abide by the law, you will have to arrange a window too.

In practice some individuals in overstaffed offices will work from a space that was originally storage, then negotiation room and now a shitty office room.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by pi-err on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:47AM (#17916700)
IIRC Germany sort of requires all offices to have direct natural light https://www.thelocal.de/galleries/lifestyle/top-ten-weird-ge...
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by pluma on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:24AM (#17916903)
That list is terrible:

3: pillows may be considered passive weapons but that is irrelevant unless it is used as such or carried in a context where it is likely intended to be used as such (e.g. while participating in a demonstration). That said, assaulting random people in public with a pillow is probably still illegal because it involves assaulting random people (albeit with a weapon that's less likely to cause permanent injuries directly).

5: Both drilling and throwing bottles into containers cause noise pollution. It's not the act itself that's verboten, it's the noise it causes.

6: This is the same thing as 5. The law doesn't give an exhaustive list of activities that might be too damn noisy so I have no idea where these come from.

8: Calling a police officer "du" is a sign of disrespect. If you're new to the language and struggling with the distinction, the police officer will likely correct you or ignore it. Treating police officers disrespectfully is a misdemeanor and addressing them as "du" is one way to be disrespectful.

9: This is a widely held misconception. The "Deutschlandlied" is not illegal. The national anthem only has one verse and that's the third verse of the Deutschlandlied (or actually "Lied der Deutschen"). You can still sing the entire song but if you were going for singing the national anthem, you'll spend two verses singing something that isn't the national anthem. The reason people will still look at you in disgust is the same reason the anthem only uses the third verse: we don't take to jingoism too kindly after WW2.

10: I'm pretty sure it's not a law that you can't drink Export or non-Munich beer at the Oktoberfest, considering the Oktoberfest is in essence just a private event, but it's Bavaria so I'm not sure of this one.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by morsch on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:08AM (#17917162)
Note that a "passive weapon" is not a weapon. It's odd legalese for defensive equipment, including helmets, gas masks amongst other things. So a passive weapon is not a weapon at all, and pillows might be included because of their property to shield yourself, not because of the damage they can cause others.

"Passive weapons" are not illegal; it is illegal to bring them to a demonstration with the intent to use them to avoid police interventions.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:15AM (#17917205)
So it's illegal to bring things that help you defend yourself to a situation where you, without personally doing anything wrong, may be attacked? Sounds great. /s
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by pluma on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:42AM (#17926169)
Yes, because the assumption is that the police protects you against any aggressors (i.e. criminals) that might attack you. In Germany (and most Western nations) the state has the monopoly of violence, so it's responsible for protecting you and you aren't allowed to do violence except as a self-defense (i.e. as a last resort and only within reason).

If you bring a shield to a demonstration it means you're expecting to be attacked, which either means you don't trust the police to protect you from aggressive counter-demonstrators (which presumably shouldn't be a reasonable concern) or you intend to start a fight.

I wouldn't say the worry is entirely misplaced, but the general idea is that if you were allowed to bring equipment that protects you from police violence the police would have to apply more violence to subdue you and nobody wants that.

IMO police violence and negligence should be prosecuted more thoroughly (see G20 vs the failure of police to uphold the law during nazi demonstrations in Chemnitz recently) but I don't disagree with the idea in general because at least it means we don't have stand-offs between white supremacists and black activists carrying (semi-automatic) assault rifles like recently in Texas, or shield formations like in Charlottesville.

EDIT: It's the same thing as with gun ownership, really: if guns are so widespread that you have to assume every suspect packs heat, you have to treat every suspect as a potential shooter and be ready to shoot first. If a cop stops your car in Germany, there's almost no chance a weapon will be involved.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by dragonwriter on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:43AM (#17926179)
> In Germany (and most Western nations) the state has the monopoly of violence

And everywhere else, too, since “the State” is simply a label for whatever aggregate of actors exercises a monopoly on legitimate use of force.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by Tomte on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @10:58AM (#17918562)
Yes, because it's a sign that you want to fight and it enables you to fight much harder.

I realize it's not the only reason possible to take body armor to a demonstration, but it is the reason for most people wearing them.

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by cyxxon on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:57AM (#17916755)
While probably true (not checking the real law right now), that list is weirdly misleading. For example it's not forbidden to drill on a sunday or tune your piano at night, you are simply not allowed to disturb other people too much at certain quiet times (e.g. Sunday or the night, so not totally unreasonable either). If you live remotely and nobody hears you, just go ahead. Side note: why would anyone consider it weird to actually have laws in place to protect workers from abusive employers? That's how it seems to be worded on that page...
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by duchenne on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @07:24AM (#17916907)
In France, natural lighting is also mandatory.

source in French: https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2012/qSEQ121002524.html

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by flr03 on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:05AM (#17917501)
If I remember correctly, in France, if you work like in a mall or a basement you are allowed extra days off ("Jours soleil").
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by Tor3 on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:58AM (#17916763)
>Which countries?

A lot of European countries, as far as I know. Not sure if it's all of them. But others have replied, so we know about Denmark (and it's the same in the other Scandinavian countries, probably all the Nordic countries, i.e. Scandinavia + Finland and Iceland), Germany, possibly Spain (not sure), Netherlands, ..

Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by rurban on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @09:00AM (#17917461)
For sure Austria also.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by narag on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:46AM (#17916697)
In Spain there is some regulation, but I don't know the details. I remember an inspector paid us a visit and made some recommendations.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by pivo on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:45AM (#17916692)
The Netherlands for one.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by the-dude on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @08:26AM (#17917269)
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by ciaron on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:45AM (#17916693)
Germany too.
Re:The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light by zyberzero on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @06:59AM (#17916770)
Sweden as well.