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Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by billfruit on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @03:17PM (#17861967)
I am ever amazed at the usage fahrenheit in the US. Do even the weather reports state temp like in fahrenheit?

Also sometimes wonder if the weather reports should be tell ing wet bulb temperatures, because it also gives an indication of humidity.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by dang on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @01:21AM (#17865871)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17861861 and marked it off-topic.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by johnchristopher on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:27PM (#17862545)
What amazes me the most is how I never see any Americans online trying to convince others that the imperial system is better than the ISU. Like... they know that it's just out of habit :].

Day-to-day the inches/feet dance is more annoying to me than the celsius-farenheit thing though.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by reissbaker on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @08:17PM (#17864093)
I've read some good arguments online in favor of Fahrenheit: degrees are more granular, so you can be more precise without needing decimal points; and in terms of air temperature it more easily approximates the human body (at above ~100 — well, 98.6, but it was intended to be 100 — the air is hotter than your skin, and below ~100 the air is cooler than your skin).

But yeah haha, imperial units of distance, weight and volume are trash; we all know it. I still have to Google how to convert feet to miles, and I was born here. Ounces to gallons? Oof.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by gsich on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @08:40PM (#17864204)
Skin temperature is not 37 °C usually. It's more like in the range 33-34 °C. And drops rapidly when it's colder outside, 15 °C outside ~25 °C skin temperature.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by AngryData on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @07:25PM (#17863834)
Maybe because many of them realize all our unit systems are entirely arbitrary and are use to converting units already when they do something that requires it. If the entire world did switch to US imperial, nothing would actually change, you would just learn a different set of arbitrary rules in school. Especially considering how little anyone does advanced sciences without a computer or calculator of some sort these days. Nobody is going to do months of work by hand when a computer can do it in 30 seconds in multiple different ways.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by gsich on Thursday August 30, 2018 @02:49PM (#17879580)
They be arbitrary, but at least SI units are logically scaled. 1 km is 1000 m. Unlike miles to feet, which have no logical scaling.

Related picture: https://i.imgur.com/MQ7LVC3.jpg

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by int_19h on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @05:17PM (#17862974)
Inches and feet are easier to approximate though (e.g. 3 feet = 1 m is "good enough" for most practical uses), whereas Fahrenheit and Celsius have this weird 5/9 conversion factor. There are simplified formulae for F/C conversions as well, but they produce deviations that are too large for practical use for many common temperatures, especially if you live in an area with real winter & summer.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by baddox on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @09:00PM (#17864326)
You don't really need to remember that many mappings of Fahrenheit to Celsius, at least for weather. Remembering approximately mappings for 0-100 by 10s should be enough for most people.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by saalweachter on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @06:09PM (#17863381)
I'm fond of 1 sq mile ~= 256 hectares.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by toasterlovin on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @01:13AM (#17865840)
Can you explain to me, as an American, why our country should put in the absolutely enormous amount of work necessary to change to a new system of measurement?

The value in a standardized system of measurement is that other people are using the same thing. As an individual American, I essentially never deal with non-Americans, so no issue there. As a country, we're a big enough market that companies importing here will go through the effort to add imperial measurements to their products.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by anilakar on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @05:41PM (#17863157)
Mostly because there are fewer Americans using international units of measurement than there are non-Americans having to deal with the imperial system.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by tomc1985 on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:02PM (#17862359)
When you grow up with it, it's not so bad. Celsius may be easier to work with but it takes longer for me to grok "15C" or "27C" ...

If anything, you have less granularity with celsius, as each degree of temperature represents a wider range of values.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by johnchristopher on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:30PM (#17862570)
I am not convinced that granularity is a good argument. I'd venture to bet that few people can distinguish between 15C and 16C and you'd agree and then I'd say that it then follows that even less people can distinguish between 15F and 16F so why such a precise scale is better than Celsius ?
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by njarboe on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @06:16PM (#17863424)
As an American I recently rented a Volkswagen in Austria. I found it funny/ironic that the inside temperature settings had half degree steps with all of the Europeans I've heard complain about the Fahrenheit scale use in US. So at least some German wanted that granularity.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by Johnny555 on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @10:26PM (#17864947)
Maybe they did that since they had the space -- a Fahrenheit display needs to show 3 digits since 100+ degrees F is possible but if it's 100C, then you've got bigger things to worry about than your car's temperature display.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by njarboe on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @01:06PM (#17869860)
I doubt you can set the temp control in a car to 100F. Unless you are in a sauna, no one is ever going to want to have that high a temp.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by Symbiote on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @06:31PM (#17863526)
No doubt if you change the settings on the car to American, it has half degrees Fahrenheit.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by rconti on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @08:29PM (#17864140)
Wrong.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by tomc1985 on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @06:16PM (#17863423)
The difference between 78F and 80F is perceptible to me -- 80F is too hot, indoors, and around 50% humidity, while 78F at similar humidity is fairly comfortable.

I agree that it may not be the most useful thing, but it's worth pointing out.

Also- "2 degrees" of global warming doesn't sound so bad to a lot of fahrenheit folks, its actually closer to 4 degrees in F

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by armadsen on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @10:55PM (#17865137)
Yeah, I think there’s something to this. In the US, the news talks about climate change using Celsius, presumably because that’s how scientists measure it. But from a messaging/persuasion perspective, it’s bad. The average American thinks that “2 degrees” isn’t so bad. And in Fahrenheit that’s (kinda) true. I think climate change should be discussed using the units that the public has intuition for.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by danbolt on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:36PM (#17862625)
I find the same way with Celsius too. Or, like when you grow up the world kind of conditions you to associate certain feelings of heat/humidity with certain numbers.

I always get confused going to the US, but I do like that they have more values as you mentioned. Or, Celsius only has 40 numbers that tell you how things are.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by oftenwrong on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @10:39AM (#17868519)
Maybe we should measure in decidegrees Celsius.

20.2°C = 202d°C

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by klodolph on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @03:26PM (#17862051)
> I am ever amazed at the usage fahrenheit in the US. Do even the weather reports state temp like in fahrenheit?

Yes, but why should this be amazing?

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by kragen on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @03:33PM (#17862113)
Because it's been obsolete for half a century. The insistence of the US on using archaic systems of measurement, despite the substantial extra difficulty of calculation and attendant errors resulting in the occasional loss of space probes and the like, is a source of continuous amusement and frustration for the rest of the world.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by saalweachter on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @05:30PM (#17863080)
Great, another metric-supremacist jumping up out of nowhere to bash non-metric units.

Listen, the metric system had some great ideas - using only one metric for all spatial divisions is one - but you got ahead of yourself, got half-assed, and have this insane obsession with a useless scaling factor (10).

The meter isn't bad; it's basically a yard. But then you went crazy and tried to related all of your measurements to the Earth, which is just this unnecessary obsession that has no actual intrinsic value. Why is it important that a unit volume of water have a unit mass of weight? Why is it important that there be an even 100 degrees between the freezing and boiling points of water? It's not! You could have chosen any arbitrary weight and temperature baselines and it would have been basically the same.

And then you did a shit job of it! The density of water is 0.997 g/ml! Measuring the Earth to determine the meter was silly all along, and you ended up redefining the triple point of water to 0.01 degree Celsius because it was too hard to fix the discrepancy by then! You started off with these supposedly noble goals, and then got half-assed because it was too hard to correct your earlier mistakes. Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, you've abandoned the archaic units of measure's reliance on powers of two to fetishise powers of ten! (On a computer programming forum, how can you defend this?) Common units are littered in powers of two because factors of two and four make for really convenient subdivisions. Four cups in a quart, four quarts in a gallon, those are very useful subdivisions. Eight furlongs in a mile, sixteen ounces in a pound. Binary divisions produce very useful natural units at human scales. Decimal divisions let an idiot multiply one number by a very large powers of ten easily. Which do you think is really more important?

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by billfruit on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @10:58PM (#17865163)
Strange to find that even in a enlightened place like HN, there abound much support for continued usage of archaic imperial units.

As I see it, since the vast majority of the world is using metric/SI units it behooves the US to change sooner or later.

I think tech/silicon valley should be using their influence with Washington to lobby for these changes. We should be asking each of the presidential candidates in elections what is their stand on this. IIRC, Bernie Sanders had promised that he would take US to metric system if elected.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by polynomial on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @01:50AM (#17865981)
Argumentum ad populum.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by comboy on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @08:24PM (#17864114)
Just so you know, Celsius is not a SI unit, Kelvin is.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by pseudalopex on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @09:15PM (#17864434)
The degree Celsius is an SI unit derived from the kelvin.

https://www.bipm.org/en/publications/si-brochure/table3.html

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by AWildC182 on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:17PM (#17862479)
Meters vs feet is an obvious choice but Fahrenheit actually makes a lot of sense for day to day use. 0-100 (0 being the coldest most people regularly experience, 100 the hottest) maps well to human senses while Celsius has half the precision and the same range is an unintuitive -17 to 37. Celsius is obviously far superior for thermodynamics calculations but not many of us do that regularly.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have switched over decades ago, but I think it's good to understand the context of such decisions.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by int_19h on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @05:20PM (#17862997)
> and the same range is an unintuitive -17 to 37

For starters, if you arbitrarily round Fahreinheit numbers up or down (which you did to get that 0-100 range), you need to do the same with Celsius. So it'd be -20-40, which is a lot less un-intuitive.

But also, that this range is what "most people regularly experience" is also rather arbitrary. I have regularly experienced winters below -20 C, for example, but I've only seen +40 C once. The truth is, most people will experience a range of temperatures that's not going to be nice and round numbers in either scale, so why fixate on it?

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by AWildC182 on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @07:36PM (#17863905)
I should add the caveat *in the United States. It would obviously be a pretty dumb comparison for Singapore or Reykjavík. I'd also add that the 10s in Fahrenheit also make nice comfort delimiters. 20 is frigid, 30 is ~freezing, 40 is cold, 50 is cool, 60 is warm, 70 is room temp, 80 is hot, 90 is excessively hot, 100 is oppressive. Again, obviously you can do the same thing with the 5s in Celsius but it does work nicely for the average person.

I'm not really saying this is better than Celsius, just that it's understandable why it's not changing as quickly as some would like. I will say that the industries that have specific reason switched fairly quickly. For instance, aviation uses feet, inHg, statute+nautical miles but does temperature in Celsius because pilots overwhelmingly care about whether it's above or below freezing outside.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by isostatic on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @07:15PM (#17863768)
-50 to 50 seems like the general scale for temperature to me
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by billfruit on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @10:45PM (#17865065)
I think it is now a question of whether the US should follow what the rest of the world follows or not. In the interest of avoiding miscommunication it better for US to change.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by toasterlovin on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @01:33AM (#17865919)
As a counterpoint, one of my favorite things about US (and, really, Anglo) culture is that we're totally okay with things not being neat and tidy. Just take a look at English. It's a beautiful mess of a language.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by cfmcdonald on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @06:47PM (#17863612)
Sorry, it's not obsolete in the U.S., it's used every day by hundreds of millions of people. How is Fahrenheit more difficult to calculate with than Celsius, and what does it have to do with space probes?
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by Arnavion on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @07:21PM (#17863812)
>>The insistence of the US on using archaic systems of measurement [...] resulting in the occasional loss of space probes and the like

>what does it have to do with space probes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...

Note to downvoters: This is an objective answer to an objective question. It is not an opinion on the US's use of imperial units.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by hoorayimhelping on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @09:15PM (#17864433)
>Note to downvoters: This is an objective answer to an objective question. It is not an opinion on the US's use of imperial units.

It's an answer to a question that no one asked. The question was:

>How is Fahrenheit more difficult to calculate with than Celsius, and what does it have to do with space probes?

From the link you provided:

>Specifically, software that calculated the total impulse produced by thruster firings produced results in pound-force seconds. The trajectory calculation software then used these results – expected to be in newton seconds – to update the predicted position of the spacecraft.

It has nothing to do with Farenheit or Celsius. The error was with the representation of force, not temperature.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by Arnavion on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @09:17PM (#17864458)
Indeed it has nothing to do with temperature scales, which is why I made sure to quote the original sentence from kragen which was also not specifically about temperature scales but general "archaic systems of measurement".
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by baddox on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @09:04PM (#17864359)
It has absolutely nothing to do with everyday temperature scales, none of which have any of the advantages that metric units for distance/mass/etc. have. You might as well be deriding the US for using a different shoe size scale than Europe.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by jazzyjackson on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:20PM (#17862494)
Luckily the average American isn't doing any calculation based on the weather.

We just want to know if its hella hot (100) or hella cold (0)

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by innocentfelon on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @03:55PM (#17862297)
Using similar logic, you could argue all countries need to get with the program and speak English.

Or use US dollars.

Or (yikes) Microsoft Windows.

America’s quaint and annoying reliance on feet, inches, miles, and pounds is culturally important, even if it makes engineering a pain.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by johnchristopher on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @04:21PM (#17862506)
> Using similar logic, you could argue all countries need to get with the program and speak English.

> Or use US dollars.

Both those things basically happened.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by comboy on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @08:27PM (#17864127)
Not taking any side, I'm just sincerely curious why do you think that it is culturally important?
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by mrhappyunhappy on Wednesday August 29, 2018 @12:04AM (#17865514)
I can't speak for all of US but at least in Midwest, in the circles I grew up it has always been an attitude or US vs the rest. Mention the metric system to a construction worker and he'll tell you to get the hell lost. US culture values individual accomplishments and self-direction so there tends to manifest an us vs them mentality. Having a unique measurement system helps support that mentality so I really don't see any change coming any time soon in regards to switching to the metric system.
Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by AngryData on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @07:31PM (#17863871)
It isn't any slower than using celsius, especially with modern calculators and computers. Nobody cares about saving 3 seconds out of an hour of hand calculated mathematics when nobody does those kinds of calculations by hand anymore.

And the same space probe loss could have happened just the same with pure SI units, the problem was somebody didn't put a unit label and somebody else didn't get clarification and made an assumption. If someone used decimeters without labeling and someone else read it as centimeters, you still failed.

Re:Air-conditioners do great good, but at a high environment... by 21 on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @03:22PM (#17862011)
> sometimes wonder if the weather reports should be tell ing wet bulb temperatures

This is why many reports or apps have "feels like X degrees"