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Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by radicaldreamer on Monday August 27, 2018 @06:23PM (#17855061)
Taking over Taiwan would be extremely tough. There are geographical challenges which would be tough to work out and the population would be extremely hostile. It would be impossible without a beach landing, which China doesn’t have the right equipment or training for and it’s unclear how willing the PLA would be to go along with it without a very good reason. Additionally, what’s the last war China was involved in? The short lived 1970s invasion of Vietnam? You can’t consider suppressing the tianammen protests anything similar to a land invasion of Taiwan even without the US security guarantee and potential nuclear umbrella coming into play. This scenario seems increasingly to be a non-starter for a variety of reasons.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by komali2 on Monday August 27, 2018 @07:28PM (#17855382)
I've met and worked out with both Chinese and Taiwanese soldiers. This is a single, unprofessional perspective but you might find it interesting.

Both countries do a sort of military training for their youth, but only Taiwan (last I checked) does a year of required service. That said, there are almost no actual combat vets in either country, and Taiwanese military service is basically "sweep gravel, peon."

BUT! The Taiwanese will come with far greater discipline, based on my experience in on-base gyms. Chinese soldiers spend their days derping around, playing ping pong, occasionally running around a track. Some of them get sent out to the fringes of the country to "suppress dissidents" but the majority sit around twiddling their thumbs (information told to me by privates, so, grain of salt).

Taiwanese soldiers, volunteer and conscripts, do seem to get a great deal more actual military training, in terms of equipment and exercises. And, maybe unrelated, but their general strength levels are way higher than their Chinese counterparts (like I said, I hung out in their gyms).

In any case, an invasion of Taiwan would "fail" by most measures of military success. China could probably nuke the island into Ash, or rain shells on it until there was nobody left to surrender, but there is a highly volatile generation or two growing into a distinctly "Taiwanese" identity. They were political enough to take over their own parliament buildings, while being supported by local businesses with food and water. My unprofessional opinion is they sure as shit would be an aggressively horrifying guerrilla force, especially because ~80% are already trained.

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by discordance on Monday August 27, 2018 @08:39PM (#17855738)
China is currently holding 1 million Uighers in 're-education' camps [0].

I think if China had the will, they could manage it.

0: http://time.com/5366225/china-uighurs-detention-report/

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by st26 on Monday August 27, 2018 @11:09PM (#17856318)
But a smoking crater the shape of Taiwan is not that useful to China. A big part of why they want Taiwan is for the businesses, which you don't really get if you nuke the island from orbit.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by kalleboo on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @02:35AM (#17856952)
But at what cost? If they want Taiwan for the institutional knowledge of TSMC, will that remain after an invasion?
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by maxkwallace on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @06:32AM (#17857744)
Definitely interesting! (100% sincere.)

My individual data point: I spoke recently with a Taiwanese who finished his military service in the past couple years. In terms of physical strength his account totally corroborates what you said. He wasn't in shape before conscription but got jacked during it, and has stayed that way afterwards.

That said, what he mainly emphasized is how outdated Taiwan's military equipment is. He said most of it is stuff they got from the USA in the 60s and 70s, and not the USA's newest weapons at the time. Their current vehicles break down a lot, and he didn't train much with artillery during his service.

If China were to invade (again, highly highly unlikely) the Chinese would have a huge technological advantage. The Taiwanese identity of the younger generation is legit, but given the relatively cosmopolitan/capitalist/individualist cultural climate, I'm not sure everyone'd be willing to lay their lives on the line for national identity. A more likely outcome is a mass exodus over many years of anyone who disagrees with Chinese ideology and has the wherewithal to get out.

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by skepticmoron on Monday August 27, 2018 @08:07PM (#17855563)
Oh snowflake is insulted Nonone voucher for your nonsense?
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by dang on Monday August 27, 2018 @09:12PM (#17855882)
We've banned this account for violating the site guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[dead]
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by SllX on Monday August 27, 2018 @09:09PM (#17855864)
Sorry but what good is it to kill the people that actually staff TSMC's foundries? The premise of this entire thread is based around the idea that the PRC would want their hands on TSMC's foundries, that means an invasion that actually preserves Taiwanese infrastructure and lives, not an impersonal shelling of the whole bloody island, even if they could do it without triggering a war with the US (debatable, but still a genuine consideration).
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by x0 on Monday August 27, 2018 @08:24PM (#17855658)
And I'm sure the US thought that the technologically poor North Vietnamese would fall quickly too. You can't underestimate the role of the people's ideological identity when it comes to taking over a country.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by landryraccoon on Monday August 27, 2018 @08:50PM (#17855784)
Unlike in Vietnam, I suspect that the Chinese leadership will be committed to a long term conflict.

America never had national identity at stake in Vietnam. China has claimed Taiwan since Mao Ze Dong. Taiwan is a way bigger deal for the Chinese national identity than Vietnam ever was for the US.

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by gaius on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @02:30AM (#17856934)
More importantly the Chinese leadership doesn’t need to worry about an election cycle. They can easily think in 20-40 year timeframes, while American leaders can go 4 years ahead at most.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by komali2 on Monday August 27, 2018 @08:04PM (#17855552)
Right, that would be the "congratulations, you have pissed off the entire planet by engaging in genocide, and now own a barren rock" strategy.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by empath75 on Monday August 27, 2018 @06:52PM (#17855181)
China is not going to invade Taiwan militarily and they don’t need to. They can gradually encircle them with alliances with their neighbors and dominate them economically until they’re forced to unify with them.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by tyjen on Monday August 27, 2018 @06:49PM (#17855173)
China is bolstering their marine and amphibious technology. If they do not already possess the ships necessary for large scale sea-to-land assaults, they will in short order. On top of this, China is also militarizing their coast guard assets.

I hope the "peaceful rise" claims holds true into the future, but a lot of the military technology they're developing are not for defensive purposes.

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by komali2 on Monday August 27, 2018 @07:21PM (#17855339)
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by curuinor on Monday August 27, 2018 @06:30PM (#17855094)
You would also have to take over TSMC without breaking it or killing anybody important.
Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by komali2 on Monday August 27, 2018 @07:19PM (#17855328)
So many of them would escape to the USA as well, where they don't need a visa to enter and will be met by many sympathetic Americans. https://www.ait.org.tw/visas/visa-waiver-program/

Considering that Taiwanese engineer programs were, when I was a recruiter, equivalent to USA schooling (depending), they shouldn't have a hard time finding a job here either...

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by ranger207 on Monday August 27, 2018 @07:20PM (#17855330)
Although China is increasing its amphibious capabilities [0], it's unlikely that the US would allow Taiwan to be taken over militarily. It's much more likely that China would go for a political takeover, and I doubt that'd happen in the next decade or so, by which time China may very well have their own leading edge fabs.

[0] https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/5-pla-navy-projects-to-watch... The author is a credible source active on reddit as /u/PLArealtalk

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by 07d046 on Monday August 27, 2018 @07:18PM (#17855318)
I saw this thread on Twitter that talks about what might happen if China tries to take over Taiwan soon: https://twitter.com/adam_ni/status/1033179777220276224

> A physical blockade in some form could be coupled with intense economic pressure, and cyber operations. This conflict escalates, and because of domestic nationalist pressure as well as factional infighting, Xi chooses confrontation instead of a backdown.

> PLA cyber, missile, air and maritime forces are deployed against TW in order to neutralize its ability to defend itself. At this stage, an invasion is still not the preferred plan because that would entail a costly campaign involving amphibious assault and urban operations.

> Instead, precision conventional missile, counter space, maritime/economic blockade, and cyber operations are used to bring TW to its knees. For the #CCP this is not only a campaign to obtain limited concessions, but to achieve its vision of unification.

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by gaius on Tuesday August 28, 2018 @02:38AM (#17856963)
PLA cyber, missile, air and maritime forces are deployed against TW in order to neutralize its ability to defend itself.

What does that actually mean tho’? A buildup of forces doesn’t neutralise anything. And why would Taiwan sit back and not respond to cyberattacks?

Re:GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development by anothergoogler on Monday August 27, 2018 @07:36PM (#17855418)
China would do great damage to its own economy by blockading Taiwan. Taiwanese companies employ many Chinese people.