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Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by Voloskaya on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:14AM (#17734020)
> even including social benefits, the salary is 2 to 3 times less

Yea... no.

Especially if you factor in the cost of life.

Edit: Average salary in SF for tech workers is $142k vs $56k in Paris [1].

Once adjusted for cost of living, Paris is roughly 86k$ [1].

Now, you add all the social benefits, like free health care, retirements etc. And if you have/plan on having children, you can add free education as well.

All in all it's very far from 2-3 times lower.

[1] https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by baud147258 on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:41AM (#17734331)
Man, I should really try to get that 13k € raise out of my employer! Just to point that average does not mean that every tech worker get that. And I'd bet that in Paris 56K$ is either very senior pay grade or management.

You can also add, among the benefits, the good network of public transport (even if some lines are overloaded).

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by Voloskaya on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:45AM (#17734374)
> Just to point that average does not mean that every tech worker get that.

Well, no. That's the point of having an average.

Would be good to have stats for median salary as well

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by Jacqued on Friday August 10, 2018 @12:05PM (#17734555)
In my experience, €50k is pretty much middle-of-the road for software developers. That's what I had after ~2 years experience. Beginners get 40k out of college.

Freelancing is also a good option, with daily rates ~400-700€ depending on experience, you can make a much better living than a regular employee.

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by vladvasiliu on Friday August 10, 2018 @12:43PM (#17734859)
Bear in mind that that would be the rate charged to the client. In France you'll have to actually have a company of some sort and then you'll get some form of salary (either dividends or actual salary).

The ballpark for your actual cash in hand, assuming no other costs for the company, would be whatever you charge divided by two (social security isn't actually free).

Of course, some things can be expensed, which is a huge advantage, for example a company car or motorbike, a laptop, etc). But it's not entirely free if you use them on your personal time, theoretically you have to pay income tax on some of the object's value.

So the numbers are, considering 220 working days a year (which is probably optimistic, because you have to budget some days to find and develop new leads, plus vacation, sick days, etc):

400 € / day = 88 000 / year => 44-45 000 after tax

Another thing to bear in mind is landlords and banks have a strong preference to rent / lend to people with a stable, long-term contract (CDI). As a freelancer, especially in the beginning, you'll probably encounter quite a few of them who won't want to do business with you. Plus, being a foreigner won't help.

Source: I'm doing the freelance thing.

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by sol_remmy on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:27AM (#17734170)
Absolutely. The free healthcare alone makes up for the lower salaries in France.

My friend is diabetic and in poor health, he would go broke if he lived in America and not Europe.

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by cm2012 on Saturday August 11, 2018 @12:32AM (#17738360)
I mean, you can pay for amazing healthcare for yourself for 800 a month (10k a year) or a family (15k a year) in the US. And if you work for a big company they cover ablot of this. It's pretty easy to calculate in salaries, and doesn't bridge the gap between countries.
Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by duxup on Saturday August 11, 2018 @09:50AM (#17739652)
I'm not sure those "amazing healthcare" numbers are correct...
Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by sametmax on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:56AM (#17734473)
Not in tech. The difference it tech salary is bigger than for other fields. It's unusually low in France, and usually big in the US.
Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by qaq on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:29AM (#17734199)
? if he/she was SW Eng. in SV ?
Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by sametmax on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:26AM (#17734153)
French working for an American company. Yes.
Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by Voloskaya on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:30AM (#17734211)
Yea sure, and a French working for a Dubai-based company would make 5 times more, but that's not really representative of the average case is it?
Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by sametmax on Friday August 10, 2018 @11:44AM (#17734367)
30% of the french salary goes to social security and retirements.

American salaries are 2 to 3 times higher.

The cost of life is NOT twice higher.

Do the math.

Also remember we are talking about tech. Not all salaries.

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by IMTDb on Friday August 10, 2018 @01:40PM (#17735288)
> American salaries are 2 to 3 times higher. Cash in hand is 2 to 3 times higher, but compensation is not.

You need to include benefits such as company car, extra holidays (europe starts with 20 + unlimited sick days), 13th month (get paid twice on december), food stamps (around 8€ / working day), ...

And stock options can be part of the package on both side of the ocean. You should value them similarly.

> The cost of life is NOT twice higher. Rent is around twice higher in SF, and contributes for a significant portion of your total expense. Other expenses (leisure, culture, ...) is indeed more slightly more expensive in SF but not by a factor x2.

Re:Ask HN: How's the Paris startup scene? by runT1ME on Friday August 10, 2018 @01:58PM (#17735450)
A couple things... salary is a small part of overall compensation. A 10% or more cash bonus is the minimum as well as some equity (which may or may not be worth something).

Health care is also free for most tech workers or if not free, a blip on the radar. I think I pay $40 a month for amazing healthcare (and I'm in SoCal not in the Bay).