>Dr. Sarnecka, the cognitive scientist, has an answer to this. Her study found that subjects were far less judgmental of fathers. When participants were told a father had left his child for a few minutes to run into work, they estimated the level of risk to the child as about equal to when he left because of circumstances beyond his control. > >I love the way this finding makes plain something we all know but aren’t supposed to say: A father who is distracted by his interests and obligations in the adult world is being, well, a father; a mother who does the same is failing her children.
Strongly disagree.
> The glee at which our current culture laughs at the perceived incompetence of men with regards to parenting has taught us all to expect fathers to be completely boneheaded at all times.
Exactly. I, as a father, can get away with all kinds of things because according to society I don't know any better, whereas my wife, as a mother, is expected to be perfect all the time and when she does something that doesn't measure up to someone's unvoiced, unwarranted expectations she's harshly judged for it. This is true not just for mothers but for all women in the US, all the time, basically from birth, doubly so if they're POC.
The problem is the other side to this coin, which is that because males are presumed to be incompetent, their interactions with children are restricted ahead of time. Children aren't allowed to be alone with an adult male because the presumption is that he'll allow them to solo pilot a homemade single-passenger rocket ship with no safety equipment, if not literally rape and murder them.
And then, for example, little girls can't learn about tech because qualified adult women to teach them are scarce and they're not allowed to be unsupervised around adult men.
This may change with the rise of ubiquitous surveillance. In fact if I'm alone with a teenage girl to whom I'm unrelated for more than a few minutes, I'll be much more comfortable if there is a recording. This may also change as deepfakes become more common...
Joe Random was never actually going to hurt your kids.
It's like school shootings. You hear about them because they're outrageous, not because you're ever likely to experience one.
And if someone is willing to lie about what happened when you were alone together, what stops them lying about the fact that you were alone together to begin with?
It is objectively a bad thing if men are perceived as incompetent parents, because they are men, let alone from any other stereotypes.
The very same prejudice hurts men in different contexts - when good and cool things they do with children are attributed to their wifes, when they want more time with children, when they don't get chance to learn how to deal with young relatives because everyone keeps them away. When they are shamed for wanting to work with young children or presumed incompetent.
All this to say that I am much more interested in the direct topic of this article - which is the fear I and my wife operate under of our getting in trouble for not raising our kids "right" - rather than have the discussion get derailed into a gender rabbit hole.
In USA, a lot of things that annoy white people are worse for people who aren't white. E.g. dealing with police, CPS, the courts, etc.
What really astounds me is that I'm not that old, and I clearly remember being able to run around or ride my bike around town for miles without any adult supervision, at the age of 8 or so. Things have really changed in this country.
I rode my bike all over town. Several times my friends and I walked across town to the video store by ourselves, rented a Sega Genesis and a few games, and hauled it all back to someone's house and stayed up all night. I was probably around 12.
Crime rates were much higher back then and there were no cell phones or other easy communication devices that would allow the kid themselves or a random pedestrian or motorist to rapidly notify authorities if something is wrong.
The safer our society gets the more afraid we become and the less tolerant we seem to become of risk.
I wonder if it's a cognitive analog of the hygiene hypothesis for allergies. There's a part of our brain that is built for a world of conflict, danger, and scarcity and in an abundant modern developed nation it just has nothing to do but declare war on phantoms and crusade against minute or non-existent risks.
I've had debates with people recently about how bad crime is becoming and how dangerous things are. I show them graphs of crime and violence for the past 30 years. I often get total unironic disbelief -- as in they don't believe it and think the sources are biased and there's some kind of conspiracy to suppress the real statistics on crime. Things were much more dangerous in the 60s through the early 90s and people felt a lot safer.
I completely disagree. Even with our crime rates being much lower than decades ago, the US is still nowhere near as safe as Japan, yet in Japan they're not remotely as risk-averse as we are (particularly in regards to kids being outside without their parents). It's very much part of their culture to have kids walk themselves to school at an early age.
I'm pretty sure it's similar in western European and Scandinavian countries: they're very safe too (particularly the Scandinavian ones), and don't treat kids and parents this way.
This is something unique to the US.
And this really touches on something I think Americans are really, really horrible at: thinking about the rest of the world. Instead of looking at our brains and trying to use psychology to figure this out, why not just look at what other humans in other countries are doing? Americans are not biologically unique. This is a cultural problem.
The urban crime wave of the 1970s - 1990s really was pretty awful.
Obviously.
> why not just look at what other humans in other countries are doing?
Like some sort of top-down policy...what exactly are you referring to?
---
api conjectured about the cause of the US culture shift over the past few decades, but never said that child protectionism had a univariate relationship.
I seriously think that the glut of sick and twisted TV shows and movies that depict the most horrific crimes imaginable are partly to blame.
When I go to my parents' house and they're watching primetime network TV, I'm shocked at the content. Blood and guts and torture and sex crimes all over the place.
There's a fairly decent BBC piece that explores this idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTg4qnyUGxg
It basically argues that people no longer buy into utopian political ideologies so politicians and political parties have pivoted toward using negative arguments (fear, hate) to motivate the people to follow them. It's not really an elaborate conspiracy theory per se... think of it as a marketing pivot.
Death by car is kind of the concern....
> simply a propaganda victim
Last 3 years: [1]
* Car attack by the Islamic State in Barcelona (24 killed, 152 injured)
* Car + knife attack by the Islamic State in London (11 killed, 48 injured)
* Bombing by the Islamic State in Manchester (23 killed, 250 injured)
* Car attack by the Islamic State in Berlin (12 killed, 56 injured)
* Car attack by the Islamic State in Nice, France (87 killed, 434 injured)
* Bombing by the Islamic State in Brussels (35 killed, 340 injured)
* Shooting and bombing by the Islamic State in Paris (137 killed, 368 injured)
Yes, you're right....a dozen here and hundred there means nothing in the overall picture of Western Europe.
But it doesn't exactly take a propaganda machine for that to have a significant physiological effect. Especially when looking at the details: these weren't back-alley muggings, bad-part-of-town shootings, or gang turf struggles. They were in tourist-friendly, public places in broad daylight, with substantial law enforcement presence. (Four unarmed police officers died trying to stop the stabbers on London Bridge.)
The story of the few seems to naturally have a large effect on the human mind. HN top 20 currently has a story of a mishandled justice for a single person https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17625385 See the comments for extrapolation onto the judgment of the US justice system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe#Deadliest_...
You can watch, in hilarity, as propagandist YouTubers go into European "no-go zones"[1], where they're met with casual street traffic, children playing and, often times, absolute peace and tranquility[2]. These "no-go zones" are supposed dens of radical extremists that assault and kill anyone who is not from the Middle East or Muslim.
Or, you can read the hundreds, if not thousands, of attempts to paint Sweden as a den of sexual assault against natives by scary foreigners. They completely ignore that the rise in sexual assault numbers have to do with recent recategorizing of what are legally recognized as sex crimes.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area, do a quick Ctrl-F for Fox, CNN, etc and you'll see how widespread of an effort is being taken to paint Europe as dangerous to exist in if you are light-skinned or not Muslim.
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pochreLwrQs
[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/01/..., an op-ed piece complaining about the fact that CNN was quick to parrot the "no-go zone" talking point without first checking their facts
And while not Western Europe, a reporter was stopped (even without camera crew) from going the most Muslim part of Sydney, for fear she would offend the residents and they would commit crimes https://youtu.be/LqY4Z1fTrMc
The officer's words: "The local community walks around here without any fear, I walk around here without any fear."
She's a professional provocateur with a clear anti-Muslim agenda. The officer stopped her because he believed she was disturbing the peace, and I'd have to agree.
Try doing what she's doing at a New York City synagogue and see how long it takes until the cops are called.
Somehow, I don't believe, "I'm just trying to criticize International Jewry!" would fly in that situation.
This is another example of a neighborhood where there's casual street traffic, children playing and absolute peace and tranquility if we ignore the woman gawking at people while loudly decrying their presence, ethnicity and religion on camera. I'd call the police, too, if such a person was trying to make an example out of me while wholly disturbing the peace.
That's where Candid Camera did all their antics.
That YouTuber has been banned from entering the UK for inciting racial hatred. I don't believe it's wise to take anything she says or shows on her channel at face value.
I find it concerning that you're willing to put her brand of divisive hate on par with Candid Camera's pranks, as if what she's doing is just silly antics.
* Protest outside Christian Church, claiming they incite violence [1]
* Protest outside Mormon Temple, claiming Nazi agenda [2]
* Protest outside Jewish synagogue claiming subversive global influence [3]
* Protest outside Catholic Church claiming heretical views [4]
* Protest outside United Church of Christ claiming pedophilia [5]
...and many, many more full-on sign-waiving, chant-shouting, screaming protests.
Not a person traveling past a mosque who is well known for her criticism of Islam.
[1] http://ewn.co.za/2017/01/29/lgbti-members-demonstrate-outsid...
[2] https://www.hjnews.com/anti-lds-protesters-stake-out-prime-s...
[3] https://www.newsweek.com/charlottesville-police-refused-prot...
[4] https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/catholics-protest-at-kaine...
[5] http://www.mauinews.com/news/local-news/2017/11/man-spewing-...
What's your agenda?
> But...surely you were joking about contrary opinions near religious centers?
Surely, you aren't trying to strawman a position that's literally one post above yours.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCla6APLHX6W3FeNLc8PYuvg/vid...
[Straight face]
There's no question she is an ardent critic of Islam. She said as much during her conversation with law enforcement, which said she couldn't freely go in the Muslim neighborhood.
As for comparison, yes, I believe her actions in Sydney were less antagonistic than the many examples I listed.
Also not all countries in Europe are the same. E.g. France, UK and Belgium have more issues in general with islamists and thus more terrorism than e.g. Germany, Italy, Poland, ...
For example, in Germany the only significant islamic terrorist attack remains the Breitscheidplatz attack with 12 dead.
Indeed, following 9/11:
* Delta, Northwest, United, and US Airways filed for bankruptcy
* New York City lost $320m in tourism revenue
* New York City jobs were cut by 450,000 and wages by $2.8b over three months
* Even unrelated tourism was affected.. I lived near Orlando, FL, and the entertainment parks were near ghost towns for weeks.
Assuming Europe stops the regular cadence of large Islamist terror attacks, this fades from memory and in a decade everything is back to normal in the public mind.
You can be hit at home, going to work or else.
Of course crime existed before, but the enormity of that tragedy moved the cursor I think.
It’s because civilization had to break down our social norms that guided humankind for thousands of years, so that we could build vast and functional social structures outside our local society and families.
A company of 1000 people is an insane achievement in human history. Ancient Rome may have had a senate, an emperor and a few generals to run the army, but in realty, there wasn’t a single sociopolitical structure larger than a few hundred people, and there really hasn’t been, until after modern times.
To do this we gave up the importance of local community, family and such, and devoted ourselves to the modern nation state. Sure there have been countries for a long time, but they used to really just be about taxes and security, and not really local security because nobody gave a rats ass if a town burned an alleged witch.
In return we got individualism and freedom. 300 years ago you would have become whatever profession your dad had, if you were a man and married if you were a woman. Today you’re free to build your own way through life.
This meant that the state suddenly became responsible for a lot of things that families and communities used to take care of though, like determining what is and isn’t allowed. Which is perfectly fine by the way, in a democratic society that values that freedom and that individuality.
The people you talk about, don’t value their freedom though, they have just really gotten used to the state being their mommy/daddy. Which is incredible dangerous but it’s also the inevitable outcome when we increasingly let radical leftists and right wingers and their identify politics dictate our public discourse.
Freedom is provocative, because not everyone agrees, and that’s just fine, but today, we’re have both leftist and right wingers wanting to use legalization to dictate virtually everything based on their identity politics.
It’s really quite terrible.
> few generals to run the army.
> the army
The army was rather a bit bigger than 1000 people.
Interestingly army structure haven’t really changed that much since then.
I think its yet another symptom of the collapse of societal/communal values in the west in favor of individualism. Criticism/gossip within a society are a good way of punishing these minor transgressions, and its usually how its done around the world. With no society left and all decisions up to the individual, the only way left is to leave everything up to the law.
I have no doubt if you took a poll asking people if it should be illegal to leave a kid in a car for any amount of time you'd get overwhelming support. And, of course, that's how people like the woman in the article end up fearing prosecution after leaving her child alone for a few minutes.
> Women are being harassed and even arrested for making perfectly rational parenting decisions.
By the way, this may be even more true for men, who are routinely viewed with a skeptical eye when it comes to parenting decisions. The glee at which our current culture laughs at the perceived incompetence of men with regards to parenting has taught us all to expect fathers to be completely boneheaded at all times.