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Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by Bucephalus355 on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @06:58PM (#17613700)
To be fair, security is an amazing amount of policy. I took and passed the CISSP, and that exam must be at least 30%, maybe 40% policy. Things like knowing how does the Commerce Department’s rule of Safe Harbor apply to US companies doing business in EU. Stuff like that.

That being said, it made me way better at my job. No matter how many technical justifications I have for why we should implement X, the second I brought up a small to medium legal thing everyone would fix it immediately.

Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by notveryrational on Thursday July 26, 2018 @01:37AM (#17615275)
Real security is almost all technical and implementation. There's a very significant danger to security that policies be some kind of front line of defense, or be implemented over sound engineering practices.

In almost every work environment, I've seen the policies working directly against security: if not by contradicting it, ignoring the details where the real security decisions live, or by striking the wrong balances between prescriptiveness and generality - then by out-prioritizing security decision making. (I've worked at mostly 100,000+ person companies).

It's much better to have technical security controls >80-90% of the actual security. It's just expensive and harder to teach/learn/implement.

That said, there's some real security gained by policy. It comes from: - Ability to communicate expectations ("adopt technical solution X") - Ability to exercise legitimized (instanciated/codified) authority

Most of the rest of the value of policy comes in as business enablement value (policies are easier to communicate to auditors than security control implementations are).

Policy can also be a useful placeholder for real security in the sense it will satisfy many external parties who might otherwise reprioritize/randomize security investments.

Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by bdhess on Thursday July 26, 2018 @03:11AM (#17615620)
Policy is not a substitute for reasonable technical controls. But it’s also not a concern that can be wished away by saying “well we just do our security the real way, in code.” Any security control implementation enforces some conceptual policy, even if that policy isn’t documented elsewhere. In some places that’s fine; in others with more robust needs, that’s insufficient. Part of what auditors audit is that policy implementations (whether in code or in human practice) match the specification.

As an example, I’m glad that browser vendors require CAs to document their policies for issuing certificates. Let’s Encrypt does a great job of making much of this process automatic, but there’s still pieces that must be done by humans, and there’s still written policies in place for all of their operations.

At some point in any security process, human judgment comes into play. Striking the wrong balance between technical controls and allowing for human judgment can also lead to absurd outcomes, like this recent article/discussion[0].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17350645

Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by notveryrational on Thursday July 26, 2018 @11:24AM (#17618165)
Absolutely.

If your system is doing "all the right security stuff" and then nobody knows about it - sure, you're secure - but nobody knows that or how you are secure. And that's a very significant problem both to a bureaucracy and to its customers. It's also an issue in terms of maintaining those controls over time between changes to staff and business direction.

There's a whole "secondary market" (within an organization) for security assurance, and it tends to be much more measurable than security posture.

Policies and summaries of those policies go a long way toward feeding that "assurance feeling" secondary market without draining resources from ongoing investments actual posture.

Essentially the way it works is that you develop security controls toward an ideal end state/direction and describe your direction as your policy. Any gaps auditors or your company find then become fuel for making actual changes to the underlying security posture at a technical level.

The danger of not having your policy really be disguised summaries of your actual implementation is that the various security staff become free to debate over fictional security and can convince themselves that if they mandate some changes on paper to the policy (with there being nothing technical associated whatsoever) that this has or should have some kind of real affect.

It's more dangerous still if the internal security assurance program uses its own policies or some measure of "adherence to the policies" to then measure security. What happens is that the compliance operation becomes authoritarian about adherence to policies that don't exist outside of (otherwise non-discoverable) mandate, and the company and its auditors are able to "measure" their posture by their policies and convince themselves they are secure.

The worst version of this is where its done on purpose for fraud.

Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by paxy on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @07:42PM (#17613937)
But how do policy changes result in a 50% increase in total expenses? They can't be hiring that many lawyers.
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by foobarian on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @08:46PM (#17614258)
You should have seen how much harder life got at our company when we discontinued a common root password across the back office. Things that used to take 5 minutes to fix by self-service now take a ticket to the owner of a system, which can take days.
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by Pyxl101 on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:42PM (#17614700)
Even if you don't have a common root password, you can still have groups of people who are sudoers for different systems.
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by jessaustin on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:11PM (#17614603)
If one bought into "the security story", one would expect your company after this policy change to have seen fewer random regressions due to random people rooting around in systems for which they were not responsible. Did you find that to be the case?
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by rorykoehler on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:26PM (#17614647)
It's about reducing exposure to risk more than actual occurrences. You only need to regress once for it to permanently damage your business. Just because it never happened until now doesn't mean that it won't in the future.
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by jessaustin on Thursday July 26, 2018 @09:09PM (#17622715)
ISTM typically there would have to be more going wrong for "permanent damage"? Not that it would be surprising for a shared-root organization e.g. to have poor backup skills...
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by rorykoehler on Friday July 27, 2018 @09:09AM (#17625678)
Commercial damage is often worse than technical
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by rachelbythebay on Thursday July 26, 2018 @12:45AM (#17615111)
Shhh...
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by zeroxfe on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:33PM (#17614449)
Example: audit all employee access to PII data.

Anyone who's worked at a large company can tell you how incredibly complex and expensive this can get if your systems aren't designed for this.

Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by xxorlak on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @08:06PM (#17614063)
Implementation of policies has a waterfall effect throughout the org.

EG: Adding something as simple as a privilege expiration (generic example) and propagating it through the org and various teams itself will take time.

Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by bobdole12345 on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @08:44PM (#17614252)
They're hiring 2/3rd more employees to act as content moderators from the sounds of the guidance.
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by cxhandley on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:45PM (#17614496)
They're about to break the brains of 1000s of people subjecting them to aweful content. This will also have consequences. What was it "move fast and break things"!
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by CalRobert on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:13PM (#17614607)
Evidently it's not employees, but contractors (via Accenture, etc). Rumour around these parts is a content mod killed themselves at work a couple months ago. Wouldn't want to put that on actual employees of course!
Re:Facebook stock drops more than 20% after revenue forecast... by TheSpiceIsLife on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:44PM (#17614709)
That’s upside down, me thinks.

It would be difficult to incur a 50% increase in expenses without massive policy shift.