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Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by jackconnor on Thursday July 19, 2018 @05:29PM (#17570453)
Not to be that guy, but we all knew that "Less stress" and "better work life balance" would result from working one day less a week, but it doesn't talk about productivity or revenue or any of that. I don't think you can realistically call this a "success" if it's not something most businesses could afford to do, and if there was a productivity loss on par with the 20% of work missed then...they're just paying more for less? Am I missing something here?
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by dylan-m on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:15PM (#17572167)
I've been doing a four day week since starting at a place that was willing to put up with my shit. You'd have to talk to my boss for actual numbers, but I feel much more productive:

* I usually have one or two major goals for the week, and four days to get there. I find it easier to reason about what I'm going to get done and how when there are fewer, longer days to work with, and I feel less interest in wasting time.

* I'm more comfortable focusing on days when I'm at work, and I'm more comfortable working a bit longer to get my stuff done, because I don't have to try to do my laundry and sweep the floors and get the groceries when I get home. (Although I realize it helps not having kids to look after, yet, so ymmv).

* I can do my dentist appointments and haircuts on my weekday off, so I rarely have to mess with my schedule or take off early.

* My weekends feel long enough. I always get back to work with a clear head. Mondays feel nice.

* I have not once told someone at work "nope, I can't do that, I don't have enough time." Will update if that changes :)

* I get to spend Friday hacking on personal projects when I feel like it. I haven't been able to do this in years, and sometimes it even benefits my employer. Free training!

I once worked at a place where everyone did a four day work week, and it was awesome. The big meetings were always on Tuesday, and we worked lengthy days (8:30-ish am to 5:30 pm), but that meant there was always room to do stuff right, without rushing. That includes taking time for tea.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by over_and_over on Friday July 20, 2018 @06:45AM (#17573899)
I've also recently made the change to a four day week, working from home, after years of a five day, work from office job. My experience mirrors that of the study. I'm more focused during work and don't feel that my productivity has dropped at all. The company I work for has been running with this model for over 5 years successfully with a high levels of morale and productivity.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by Nition on Thursday July 19, 2018 @08:18PM (#17571483)
From: https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/aud...

They've apparently reported no drop in overall productivity, i.e. Four days' work is equal to the old five days work, an increase in productivity per day.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by mjfl on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:01AM (#17573029)
That doesn't make any sense. A 32 hour work week is not nearly enough hours to make an additional 8 hours pointless. That's a full 25% of your work week so far. Maybe if we were talking reducing 60-80 hour weeks to 40, maybe. But come on.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by zaarn on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:31AM (#17573130)
You're assuming those 40 hours are used all productively. I don't think it's wildly off to assume that 8 hours of the 40 hour week are basically wasted because people like playing around once their concentration is gone.

Plus on friday, people tend to be a lot less productive.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by hellweaver666 on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:52AM (#17573208)
It absolutely does. In modern companies many employees spend at least an hour a day (and in many cases 2-3 hours for less motivated employees) dicking about on social media, reading the news etc. If the change in working conditions comes with a reduction of this kind of messing around and more work focus, I could see it easily having a profound impact on productivity.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by adam-a on Friday July 20, 2018 @05:56AM (#17573711)
This definitely seems like it's true. I wonder if there have been any reputable studies or surveys on how much time office employees waste on average like this?
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by piva00 on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:22AM (#17573310)
There isn't a single human being in this world working 40 hours/week being productive for every single hour of their workweek.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by chillwaves on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:27AM (#17573343)
That's a ridiculous claim.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by piva00 on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:38AM (#17573387)
Mine? If so... It's called "hyperbole". If not, well, yeah, claiming that anyone can be productive for 40 hours a week in a desk job for their whole lives is pretty ridiculous.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by iamforreal on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:06AM (#17573040)
I'm honestly not surprised by the results, and believe them. Especially for things like programming
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by booleandilemma on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:46PM (#17571009)
Everybody at my job is always complaining about how busy they are, yet the office is suspiciously empty on Fridays.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:14PM (#17571183)
It is a shame that we live in that culture in which you need to constantly pretend to be overworked in order to be seen as productive and efficient.

I agree with you, a lot of people in Silicon Valley are taking it easy one or two days at week while working from home, or leaving early while still pretending they are working 15 hours a day.

We should have a healthy debate about that

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by fzeroracer on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:48AM (#17572553)
Unfortunately businesses (and especially those in Silicon Valley) are obsessed with the idea of looking productive. The amount of work done doesn't particularly matter; it's far easier to point to the plucky young SDE killing themselves by working 80 hour weeks at lower productivity levels rather than the developer who does his 40, gets shit done and then goes home.

There's this strong concept of self-sacrifice as a way of ensuring company success. Sacrifice your life, sacrifice your friends and family for the sake of the company mission. It's only when people start demanding better hours and less abuse will a debate start to arise. And it likely won't be one with a respectful tone.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by ironjunkie on Friday July 20, 2018 @02:32AM (#17572940)
I agree, but in tech and other highly paid job, workers are actually PROUD to work long hours (and sometimes weekend).

There is that whole narrative that was created that working in a startup/big tech company for long hour is really cool.

People are lying to themselves and to each other to fit into that narrative (Some are really working like crazy, but not the majority of the ones saying so).

I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by zelos on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:41AM (#17573397)
I see this mentality a lot and I just don't understand it.

It's an especially odd thing to say when you're all working on the same team, doing similar work: it kind of translates as "I'm so inefficient it takes me twice as many hours to do the same work as the rest of you! Go me!"

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by eeZah7Ux on Friday July 20, 2018 @07:55AM (#17574237)
Looking very busy makes people feel needed and non-replaceable.

Also work is the only activity portrayed as useful and therefore meaningful, while spare time is expected to be filled with mindless entertainment.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by mmt on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:50PM (#17571859)
No amount of debate, or even enthusiastic agreement, on the part of the "we" that would see this message, would ever result in meaningful changes, if this trend is being driven/caused by upper management.

I posit that it is, much like the trend toward open office plans (which have seen plenty of discussion, if not healthy debate).

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by xupybd on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:01PM (#17571683)
Come the end of the day I'm way less productive that the start. It has nothing to do with pretending. I'm just not able to think as clearly or solve problems as quickly.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by taneq on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:32AM (#17572714)
It's not about being productive and efficient. It's about the company wanting to make sure they've got full value out of you. If you're not working at capacity then they're wasting money.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by EZ-E on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:49PM (#17572082)
> complaining about how busy they are

It's an excellent way to protect yourself from actually having to work too much : always act and pretends like you're super busy. People will bother you less. My productivity increased a lot since I started acting busy to deflect non sensical requests and questions

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by qubax on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:10PM (#17571716)
> Everybody at my job is always complaining about how busy they are

Probably busy browsing social media and updating their pinterest. It's a lot more exhausting than people give it credit for.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by colemannugent on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:18PM (#17570835)
It's probably not a full 20% loss, but I think your point still stands. To expand a bit:

It seems to me that the only way they could work a day less and not affect the companies productivity is if those employees did nothing during that day anyway. Say that in a work week an employee produced 100 units of work (feel free to substitute this with your favorite productivity microbenchmark). Thus, with the 5 day work-week each day the employee must produce around 20 units of work. Say you reduce that to 4 days, so now each day the worker must produce 25 units of work to be as productive. It follows that in order to work one less day per week the worker must work 25% more per day or overall productivity will suffer.

Imagine that your company implements something like this, suddenly per-day expectations go way up. Can you complete that meeting at 125% speed? Will your builds finish 25% faster? Can you increase your typing speed by 25%? Can you dig that ditch in 3 hours instead of 4? Can you clear tables 25% faster? I don't think anyone wants the consequences of this.

The only way I can remotely see this working out is for the employers of salaried info-workers in high profit-margin industries. For someone employed in a manual or skilled labor position it may be impossible or outright dangerous to attempt to complete tasks at 125% speed. I could however see this being a neat benefit that employers like the Silicon Valley types offer to outbid the competition, but I don't think this is practical for the economy in general.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by ridgeguy on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:09AM (#17572640)
>It seems to me that the only way they could work a day less and not affect the companies productivity is if those employees did nothing during that day anyway.

An alternative would be that the 4-day schedule boosted employee efficiency by enough to make up for missing day 5.

Stress often degrades performance, particularly when it's chronic. I don't find it incredible that giving employees an extra day for their non-work duties/joys might increase their efficiency 20%.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by colemannugent on Friday July 20, 2018 @11:23AM (#17575713)
>I don't find it incredible that giving employees an extra day for their non-work duties/joys might increase their efficiency 20%.

Note that the employees must improve their efficiency by more than 25% for this to benefit the employer, and that they must do this every single day.

I can easily imagine that Monday mornings would be much more pleasant with a 4-day work week, but beyond that first morning I think it would increase stress. If every day I came to work knowing that my employer expected 125% out of me that day I think I would burnout much faster.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by thatfrenchguy on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:57PM (#17571075)
"Can you complete that meeting at 125% speed"

I think everyone who ever has had a tech job knows that yes, you can. Parkinson's law is a thing.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by wahern on Thursday July 19, 2018 @11:26PM (#17572204)
I can run 1 mile much faster than I can run 3 miles. And that holds true day after day.

Another way to look at things is to use the 4-day week as the baseline. Add another day of work and people can only consistently perform at 80% without burning out.

Now, I'm not saying that I believe this is the case--that most companies can cut down to a 4-day week without hurting productivity long-term. Just that your argument isn't intuitive or obvious on its face, and I could see the data going both ways, or simply being a mixed bag.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by colemannugent on Friday July 20, 2018 @11:57AM (#17576086)
>I can run 1 mile much faster than I can run 3 miles.

This ignores the fact that employers don't pay you for how fast you run, but actually by how far you run in a day. Only the employee cares about how fast they can run.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by paulsutter on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:00PM (#17571677)
Can you get by with 20% fewer meetings? Hells yes. How about 30% fewer to leave more time for work within the four days? Even better
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by aninhumer on Friday July 20, 2018 @06:34AM (#17573850)
Your analysis is numerical nonsense.

Work is not divided into even units completed at a constant linear rate over the course of the day. It's a wide variety of different actions, and the time taken to complete each will vary wildly depending on tiredness, stress and morale.

Some tasks may take the same amount of time regardless, but some can drastically reduce. A well rested developer may realise the solution to a bug in a few minutes that would take them hours to solve on less sleep. Or indeed, avoid causing the bug in the first place.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by colemannugent on Friday July 20, 2018 @11:44AM (#17575942)
>Work is not divided into even units completed at a constant linear rate over the course of the day

You are correct, work is not distributed evenly throughout the day. But this doesn't matter to the employer. Your employer could care less how fast you complete a "days worth of work", all that matters is that each day you complete a "days worth of work". For employers of mostly hourly workers, this will change to an "hours worth of work", but the concept remains the same: the rate at which work gets done is unimportant next to the amount of work that gets done.

The criteria you give as affecting the productivity of workers is tiredness, stress, and morale, all of which I would assert decrease throughout the day. Wouldn't it then be more productive then for the employer to simply send the employee home earlier once they have lost their productivity? I think so, but employers would start to wonder why they ever paid for those non-productive hours in the first place, and that might have more sinister consequences for the worker.

It's not obvious to me that taking a day out of the work week is the best way to approach this. I think just talking with your employees to see how they're doing then adjusting their hours accordingly would be vastly more effective.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by rosege on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:18PM (#17571952)
Havent RTFA but I heard an interview with the CEO where he said he read that the average employee is only productive for 2-3 hours per day. Thats why he decided to give this a try.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by colemannugent on Friday July 20, 2018 @11:53AM (#17576041)
>...the average employee is only productive for 2-3 hours per day

This sounds true to me, so let's assume that it is. If the average employee was unproductive for most of their day it stands to reason that employers would have a great incentive to only employ workers during their productive hours. Assuming the average employee is only productive for three hours a day, the employer is overpaying their employees by about 60%.

The problem seems to be how to eliminate the unproductive hours in a way that also benefits the worker. The way I see things working out is employers asking more of their employees for a smaller amount of compensation. Great for the employer, but I really don't think this is the kind of worker empowerment people are hoping for.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by jonhendry18 on Saturday July 21, 2018 @01:59AM (#17580900)
"It seems to me that the only way they could work a day less and not affect the companies productivity is if those employees did nothing during that day anyway."

OR, if work-disrupting absences (appointments, etc) were all scheduled for the weekday off, rather than being distributed through the week and interfering with meetings, collaboration, etc.

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by perfunctory on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:52AM (#17573207)
“Employees designed a number of innovations and initiatives to work in a more productive and efficient manner, from automating manual processes to reducing or eliminating non-work-related internet usage,”
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by sbjs on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:59PM (#17572124)
I’d be more interested in studies showing that you get more productivity by leaving at 4pm than 5pm since that’s when everyone stereotypically starts to slack and goof around on until 5pm anyway.
Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by tobltobs on Thursday July 19, 2018 @05:39PM (#17570541)
> Am I missing something here?

You missed:

"Staff stress levels decreased by 7% across the board as a result of the trial, while stimulation, commitment and a sense of empowerment at work all improved significantly, with overall life satisfaction increasing by 5%."

or

"Employees designed a number of innovations and initiatives to work in a more productive and efficient manner, from automating manual processes to reducing or eliminating non-work-related internet usage,"

tl;dr: (Sometimes, maybe, for some time) decrease of work time is compensated by increase in productivity,

Re:Work less, get more: New Zealand firm's four-day week an ... by taejavu on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:06PM (#17570753)
Neither of these quotes, nor anything in the article, claims that productivity levels were equal to what they were with a 5 day week, let alone increased.

How you derived that tl;dr is beyond me, you can't just draw your own conclusions and call it a summary.