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Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by maerF0x0 on Friday July 13, 2018 @01:36PM (#17524963)
Also this article seems to miss that you can take illegal money, buy hashing equipment and launder it via mining... I'm sure having crypto in the news has got more crime bosses' attention? Obviously I have no proof of this being the case.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by magnetic on Friday July 13, 2018 @01:51PM (#17525092)
If you can buy hashing equipment with your money, doesn't it mean you've already "cleaned it"?

If not, what kind of business provides you with hashing equipment from dirty money?

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by fareesh on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:11PM (#17525299)
I guess it depends on what you mean by "hashing equipment"

For example, if you go to Ritchie Street in Chennai, India there are plenty of stores that will sell you a top of the line GTX 1080 GPU for cash. No record of the transaction, and no taxes. A lot of stores will probably even accept USD.

You wouldn't be able to launder boatloads of cash this way, but with enough motivation you could do this on a regular basis and offset some cash.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by chanfest22 on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:22PM (#17525402)
Wow, that's terrible! We should probably ban cash because it is being blatantly used for money-laundering.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by Filligree on Friday July 13, 2018 @03:13PM (#17525815)
You kid, but in some places that's already in the process of happening. See Sweden, for instance.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-41095004

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by ur-whale on Friday July 13, 2018 @05:00PM (#17526651)
Yes, it is unfortunately already the case in most EU countries. In France and Italy, for example, you can't buy a new car cash (cash transactions over 2.5K euros are basically illegal).

This is a very profound loss of individual freedom, almost as important as losing right to free speech would be, yet strictly no one on the political spectrum seems the least concerned about it.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by fel0nious on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @10:57AM (#17550110)
There is likely a balance here, somewhere.

Be careful equating money with free speech.

Citizens United in the US has had equally-troublesome consequences, based on the premises that corporations are people and money is their speech.

Conflict of interest plays a role here, and that's unfortunately something that has been under constant 'redefinition', especially in the last 20-40 years.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by ReverseCold on Friday July 13, 2018 @06:41PM (#17527498)
They're trying to do that in India right now.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by tschwimmer on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:39PM (#17525568)
How much off US MSRP? I’m actually in the market for a new card for a gaming rig at the moment.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by bowmessage on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:44PM (#17525616)
If I had to hazard a guess, it would be for more than US MSRP in order to incentivize the seller.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by fareesh on Friday July 13, 2018 @10:34PM (#17528481)
More expensive because there is an import duty cost to offset, which is between 10% and 30%

Taxes are 5-18% on top of that.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by chrischen on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:33PM (#17525519)
Why not then just sell the GTX 1080 directly to miners?
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by sonnyblarney on Friday July 13, 2018 @03:08PM (#17525777)
"If not, what kind of business provides you with hashing equipment from dirty money?"

That part is easy. Other businesses don't know if your money is dirty, the issue is transactional, i.e. buying without a receipt in the tax domain you're in.

So, if you can somehow take 'dirty USD' and buy ASICs anywhere outside of America, it will probably work.

The purpose of Money Laundering is to get money into a bank account that the government will recognize as legit, but 'dirty money' can still be used for whatever reasons for nefarious purposes, a lot of it even from 'good businesses'.

Buying a few ASICS in cash from individual stores will not raise eyebrows like walking into a Ferrari dealership with cash might.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by pas on Friday July 13, 2018 @04:46PM (#17526552)
How do you account for the cost of the ASICs then if it was bought with dirty money? Or the method is to start a legit business and make it waaaaay more profitable on paper (with all the dirty money)? (Like it "used to" be with laundries and/or casinos?)
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by sonnyblarney on Friday July 13, 2018 @08:10PM (#17527889)
If the BTC business is supposed to be legit, you just wouldn't put the ASICS on the books as assets. But I don't think the BTC business would necessarily need to be legit in the first place.

It does seem like a powerful opportunity for nefarious activity, and this may be keeping the price propped up on some level.

Organized crime is big business and they aren't stupid.

Sadly.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by pas on Saturday July 14, 2018 @09:51AM (#17530344)
I know they aren't stupid, but they need a non-transparent, hard-to-audit business. Like a restaurant. The IRS (or the relevant tax authority) won't count how many meals you have served, and you can price it as high as you like.

Or you can just do a festival and claim that you had a lot more visitors. It's hard to count people after all, and easy to print fake tickets.

So, I simply think that ASICs are not the things used for money laundering, because their output is very constant, and the hashrate is public knowledge, so easy to verify how much money you made.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by mattnewton on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:04PM (#17525241)
I have no idea what I am talking about, but I imagine you can exaggerate the returns and downplay the costs on an operation like bitcoin mining to squeeze in your dirty money. Like they would with any cash heavy business where it is hard to determine the actual costs and revenue.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by TomMarius on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:12PM (#17525307)
You still need to buy the equipment, and that is expensive. This makes zero sense.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by mattnewton on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:30PM (#17525493)
It’s the same process with buying a cash buisiness, you bootstrap it with debt or clean money. You are assuming that the criminal only has access to dirty money, but it’s not that hard to take out a credit card, a loan, and/or have some savings.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by TomMarius on Friday July 13, 2018 @06:34PM (#17527461)
The miner is not a magical money machine, it doesn't make so much money. You'd need to keep buying new and new hardware and somebody will get suspicious soon.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by gammateam on Friday July 13, 2018 @04:07PM (#17526237)
hm, so first the new mining operations run the entire fabrication line, so they have factories in Shenzhen or Scandinavia and create the mining hardware and start mining. if you have the whole production line you can pay for costs in cash or straight from the illicit source to people without ever passing through a reportable system

secondly, when you do buy mining hardware or buy hashrate (cloud mining), most manufacturers and service providers ONLY take bitcoin, so if the money was dirty it still never passed through a reportable system. when you pay for invoices with cryptocurrency there is no billing address or any other information about the buyer. if you funds came from a botnet, a hack or even drugs but stayed in the system, there is no necessity to link your identity to anyone. you can ship your hardware to any address, or straight to a data center, and even if you think that will reveal your identity even the mining proceeds can go to any random address recipient and this is all new money.

instead of trying to reveal the flaws, try imagining it as if you had five million dollars in bitcoin to launder and i2p/TOR and see how you could remain anonymous without messing up your OPSEC on either the blockchain or from your other activities.

Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by thaumasiotes on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:08PM (#17525266)
You don't need to admit that you own the hashing equipment you bought with dirty money. You might have gotten lucky.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by leakybit on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:13PM (#17525319)
I believe that business is called Bitmain
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by nwsm on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:06PM (#17525258)
If you are able to safely buy expensive things there are definitely faster / more profitable ways to turn it into cash than mining bitcoin.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by craigc on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:32PM (#17525514)
Care to provide some examples? Are you talking about buying things in order to rent them out to other people?
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by n1c on Friday July 13, 2018 @04:44PM (#17526532)
They might be referencing stuff like art/diamonds?
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by bufferoverflow on Friday July 13, 2018 @02:37PM (#17525557)
No, you still would have to explain where the equipment came from in case of an audit.
Re:Bitcoin Hash Rate Rapidly Growing Despite Price by HashBasher on Friday July 13, 2018 @03:20PM (#17525875)
In the past, only bitcoin users were criminals. Now miners too!??! Only groups left are developers and businesses.