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Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by kevin_thibedeau on Friday June 29, 2018 @01:50PM (#17426195)
Google is doing a great job of making their mobile app a PITA to use. I just want to see a map, not a persistent screen filling list that refuses to be dismissed. If Apple were smart they would make it cross platform and strengthen their data collection with Android users.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by pkulak on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:53PM (#17426741)
If Apple made a map that labeled every street on the map at a certain zoom level, I'd switch today. I think I'm the only one who wants to use a map, to, ya know, see what the streets are. Maybe I'm old?
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by zapdrive on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:04PM (#17426856)
No you are not odd. Often, it's frustrating when trying to read a street name on Google maps, especially in a dense area like a downtown. Google prefers to display business names over street names. And when there are lots of businesses in an area, you won't be able to see a street name until you absolutely zoom all the way in.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by nikanj on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:20PM (#17427539)
This is my #1 pet peeve on Google maps. It's the non-determinism that really gets me. Maybe zooming in will get me a street name? Maybe zooming out will? Maybe if I followed the road in that direction? How about this direction? How about if I follow it a few blocks, then zoom out?

Getting a good dose of impotent rage just thinking about it.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by SiVal on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:46PM (#17427736)
Well now you've gotten me all bothered, too. And if I do manage to find the street name but can't quite read it because the font is too small, I zoom in and the road expands but the font doesn't. No matter how I zoom or pan, it offers either 1) too small, or 2) oops, I disappeared again.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by dahauns on Saturday June 30, 2018 @06:39AM (#17430308)
What's even more infuriating in such a case: even many businesses are missing until you zoom way in. On desktop, I've resorted to use gmaps with 50-60% browser zoom to get it to show a bigger part of the map at full zoom while still having full symbol density. It's crazy.

(The most ironic part is the pop-up "You should increase browser zoom level to get a better Google Maps experience!". No, Google, not really.)

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by lukifer on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:18PM (#17426975)
Thank you. This drives me crazy as well. (Related: roads that have both names and highway numbers, but the map shows one and not the other, regardless of zoom level.)
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by Sylos on Friday June 29, 2018 @10:52PM (#17429249)
I mean, there's other map providers as well. OpenStreetMap is generally good with providing lots of map detail (whereas they are not good as a Google at providing the sort of in-depth information like opening times or that this shop has been rated 5/5 by the owner, their mother and their alt account).

https://www.openstreetmap.org/

Popular app that uses OpenStreetMap-data: https://osmand.net/

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by smelendez on Friday June 29, 2018 @05:02PM (#17427846)
I also find it frustrating you can't tap on a place while you're in "directions" mode. If you're going somewhere and want to see if some place on the way is open, you have to exit directions, tap the place and then request directions again!
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by megablast on Friday June 29, 2018 @08:28PM (#17428852)
Oh, you want to know the name of that major street? Too bad.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by gondo on Saturday June 30, 2018 @01:00AM (#17429554)
not that it is the best (or even good) solution, but you can drop a pin on the map to see the address including the street name
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by toddmorey on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:40PM (#17426604)
Google Maps always nags me to login to improve my experience. I hate that; hate the idea of one more entity collecting info on my daily patterns and travels.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by ehsankia on Friday June 29, 2018 @05:38PM (#17428035)
It's annoying that notifications are on by default, but just as with any other app, you can either mute all notifications or go in and disable specific types with pretty high granularity.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by myrandomcomment on Friday June 29, 2018 @10:38PM (#17429213)
To sorta the same point, I use the YouTube app on my iPad and I am logged in because I to see my subscribed channels. Now google has asked me to sign up for YouTube Red like 1000s times now in the app. You would thing after the 999 no they would understand yet....
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by throw7 on Friday June 29, 2018 @07:26PM (#17428635)
Google maps is also very weak/nonexistent with planning a specific route, saving it, and using it. It's possible to plan a route with the web version, but there is no way to save it so it's usable past that. Sending it to mobile google maps and it recalculates everything.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by atomical on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:07PM (#17426330)
I do cross country drives and love PIP on Android. I also like how I can schedule a stop at a gas station or grocery store based on how it impacts my route.

The only complaint I have about maps is that it doesn't seem to know where I'm going next. Nine times out of ten the place I'm navigating to is the same place I navigated to from the same spot yesterday.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by dmix on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:28PM (#17426523)
Google Maps lets you save common routes (plus detects ones you haven't yet) and pull them up quickly... like a daily commute route. Which powers the 'warning your drive to x is 10min delayed with traffic accident' stuff on Google Assistant.

The problem is that while Google Maps is very popular, it's not easy to find and use these features. I just came across is accidentally one day. Or it's possible Google asked me if I wanted to save if when it detected I do it often. It's been a while so my memory is a bit hazy on the original workflow I took.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by JadeNB on Friday June 29, 2018 @11:00PM (#17429264)
> The problem is that while Google Maps is very popular, it's not easy to find and use these features.

While talking about hard-to-find-and-use features: sometimes, when I try to get directions, Google offers to download them for me for offline use.

This is frustrating because it only happens sometimes, but I want it almost all the time. There's a relatively easy way to download offline directions for a specific region, but I can't find a way to download offline directions for a specific route (including, presumably, a small fuzz of nearby information—I don't know what it downloads when it offers, since I find this hard to reproduce). Just downloading all the regions involved is impractical for, e.g., cross-country drives.

Do you know how to download offline directions for an arbitrary route, when Google doesn't prompt me to do so?

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by kenjackson on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:18PM (#17426973)
Also Google will use your calendar to populate the list of destinations -- I think.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by atomical on Saturday June 30, 2018 @01:59PM (#17431865)
Why am I in charge of managing this in the age of AI? That's my complaint.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:08PM (#17426341)
Just tap the map... Quite easy to use Google Maps by scrolling around the map.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by techer on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:13PM (#17426389)
Admittedly I live in a very densely populated place, but now everything is hidden until you hit the correct 'zoom zone' - I still use it of course but it's less usable and far, far more bloated...
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @02:19PM (#17426441)
I too live in a densely populated place and easily see the full map. Do you have a screenshot? Here's what it looks like when I open, if I tap on the map it goes to full map (no search bar, no buttons on the bottom).

https://imgur.com/a/5tfuz2p

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by zapdrive on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:07PM (#17426880)
What's the name of the street between Pine and Union. Seems to be an important street. But no, Google would rather display the Chipotle rather than the street name. If I'm looking for Chipotle, I'll fucking type it out in the search box. Don't display me random businesses, just show me the damn Street name!
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by crashedsnow on Friday June 29, 2018 @08:43PM (#17428883)
It's not trying to hide the street necessarily, it's recognizing that it can't display the street AND the business name because the text would either overlap or be too cluttered to read. Not being able to prioritize street names over place names, or not being able to switch off place names entirely would be a valid criticism, but I suspect there's an attempt to make the "default" experience the best balance without requiring that people tweak a wall of knobs and levers. It's not going to please everyone, but that may not be a realistic goal anyway
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by octorian on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:05PM (#17427446)
And if you're looking for the name of the 3 other businesses in the same building as the Chipotle, good luck! You might have to zoom in another 400%, and get lucky.

Now what if you're trying to casually browse the map to get an idea of what's around you? Have fun!

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:11PM (#17427473)
If you're looking for a specific business you would type it in the search box... By default it highlights places I often go, popular places, landmarks, etc. Highlighting a lunch place at lunch time makes a ton of sense to me.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by donarb on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:49PM (#17427290)
Every Seatteite should know the names of the downtown streets with this mnemonic - “JJesus CChrist MMade SSeattle UUnder PProtest”

From south to north the streets are:

James John Cherry Columbia Madison Marion Spring Seneca University Union Pike Pine

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by snowwrestler on Friday June 29, 2018 @05:39PM (#17428044)
If I already knew how to get around, I wouldn't have opened a mapping app.

"You should already know all the streets" is not what I would call a scalable approach to labeling maps.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by sprashanth on Friday June 29, 2018 @05:19PM (#17427944)
Jefferson, James, Cherry, Columbia, Marion, Madison, University, Union, Pike, Pine. IIRC. The rest of the sequence seems correct.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by megablast on Friday June 29, 2018 @08:52PM (#17428920)
What a ridiculous thing to say. I guess they only make for locals who know the area.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by Cd00d on Friday June 29, 2018 @05:03PM (#17427861)
Neither you nor the street pay Google as much as Chipotle does - maybe that's part of the issue?
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @06:04PM (#17428195)
I have been to that Chipotle a bunch of times and have searched for it multiple times (to get its hours), it makes sense to highlight it on my map. I just compared on the web version with logged in vs Incognito tab and Chipotle is only highlighted in the logged in version (along with other places I like). The public version sticks to larger POIs (hotels, museums, venues, etc).
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:13PM (#17426934)
Why would you need to see the name of the street? You're much more likely to pull open a map to go somewhere instead of learning about street names in your own neighborhood. If I want to see every street labeled I can just zoom in, but 99% of the time I just want to go somewhere.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by freehunter on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:28PM (#17427063)
Here's a use case: I was in NYC the other day, and GPS doesn't really work on the sidewalks in Manhattan. I was trying to find the Empire State Building, but I couldn't see it from where I was. I knew I was in the right vicinity, but the GPS kept hopping from block to block and I had no idea.

I had to look at the street signs and compare to the map on my phone to determine where I was and where I needed to go.

"Why do you need to see the name of the street" is a really odd question to me.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by mitchty on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:24PM (#17427570)
Exactly, not showing street names presumes gps works and that its self evident where to go.

I don't get why a MAP, won't show street names. Its maddening when you have street signs and have to look around to figure out what street you're on in the application.

I'll just say Google is great at making AI and A/B testing away things that are useful and needed in a pinch.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by mrep on Friday June 29, 2018 @11:07PM (#17429281)
GPS signals bounce off skyscrapers so it doesn't work so well in any city. But hopefully the AR they showed at IO will solve that problem: https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/maps-walking-navigation-is...

If not, the current strategy I use is to google map search a business I see and the street name and that usually works.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by reaperducer on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:02PM (#17427421)
Why would you need to see the name of the street?

And this is the heart of the Google philosophy: Second-guessing the user, rather than delivering what the user asked for. A map is a tool, not a guessing game.

You're much more likely to pull open a map to go somewhere instead of learning about street names in your own neighborhood.

If I'm in my own neighborhood, I'm probably not using a map. If I'm somewhere new, I pull out the map. Maps 101.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:17PM (#17427514)
> And this is the heart of the Google philosophy: Second-guessing the user, rather than delivering what the user asked for. A map is a tool, not a guessing game.

Well this user is happy, I don't want a digital copy of a paper map. I love the dynamic aspects of Google Maps and hope they continue to evolve new ways of showing me what I want before I do anything.

> If I'm somewhere new, I pull out the map. Maps 101.

And still I ask why would you want to know that the street is named Pike? When I'm somewhere new I don't care what any of the streets are named, I care about what is on those streets. Street names matter for turn by turn navigation, but just browsing around are useless to me. Seattle could change the name of every street tomorrow without warning and it wouldn't change where I want to go for lunch.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by reaperducer on Friday June 29, 2018 @05:16PM (#17427930)
Sounds like you've never been given an address. Or know of any famous streets. Or have never been curious about the world around you.

From your example -- If I'm in Seattle and I see "Pike Street" I might wonder if the city's #1 tourist attraction, the Pike Place Market is nearby.

Or I could just let Google decide what's best for me like a good, compliant income bag.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by GuB-42 on Friday June 29, 2018 @07:11PM (#17428547)
Addresses are meant to be searched, something that Google Maps is surprisingly bad at, at least in France... Paper maps need street names, because that's how you search but that's not the case when there is a computer helping you.

As for places of interest, I've seen an article that blew my mind. By analyzing business concentration, they are able to deduce the interesting parts of a city (they are shown in a different color on the map). And it works. Famous streets tend to show brightly, and even if you don't know the name, you know there is something there.

Of course it doesn't mean that street names are uninteresting, but on a map, choices have to be made. And tbh, when we have all these powerful tools, street names are, I think, secondary. It is not that I think Google choices are the absolute best, just that what works best on paper may not be the best for computers.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @06:14PM (#17428255)
If I'm navigating to an address I would put it in the search box... Who in their right mind would decide to hunt around the map to find a specific address? Pike Place Market was one of the few things highlighted on the screenshot I posted so that seems like a strange example.

Obviously we use the product differently, but I'm not using Google Maps to study for The Knowledge exam. I am looking for POIs which is what Google emphasizes, streets are just part of getting there (and are then emphasized when you're in navigation mode).

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by reaperducer on Friday June 29, 2018 @06:21PM (#17428298)
Who in their right mind would decide to hunt around the map to find a specific address?

Anyone who's been given a wrong location or directions by Google Maps. Repeatedly.

Like when Google Maps tells me repeatedly to drive my car through the lobby of a hotel to get from Point A to Point B.

There's plenty of examples of Google Maps screwing up royally and people needing to use Google Maps as an actual map. Just Goog... oh... right.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by tgb on Friday June 29, 2018 @04:13PM (#17427485)
No the street labels don't even always show on maximum zoom. Yes I want the street name even if I'm going to the Chipotle they display because it's easy to know that I'm walking to Main Street then turn left versus checking my phone every block to see if I'm there yet.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by anderskev on Friday June 29, 2018 @10:26PM (#17429179)
Exactly what I was going to add. Also if your battery is low, it's much better (for me, at least) to just memorize a few turns and then shut down the app. I don't need my phone pinging GPS constantly while it's in my pocket, and especially when exploring a new city, that's exactly where it should be if you want to take in the neighborhood while you get to your destination.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by JadeNB on Friday June 29, 2018 @10:51PM (#17429247)
> Why would you need to see the name of the street? You're much more likely to pull open a map to go somewhere instead of learning about street names in your own neighborhood. If I want to see every street labeled I can just zoom in, but 99% of the time I just want to go somewhere.

Your comment literally seems to say "Why would you do this thing, since I don't?". Surely that reasoning is just as specious as (say) asking why someone would want a vegetarian restaurant, since you eat meat?

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by mulmen on Friday June 29, 2018 @06:43PM (#17428413)
There's a huge amount of construction in Seattle right now. The streets around my office are constantly closing and opening on different days. Sometimes it is easier to just look at a map of the neighborhood and navigate from that. If Google wants the app to be used for navigation only they should have called it Google Navigation.

I like riding my motorcycle around and exploring the city. I may not have a specific destination in mind or want to take the most efficient route. being able to quickly pull up a map of my location mapped to signage in the real world is indispensable.

Naming streets is the entire point of a street map. It literally maps names to streets.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by dragonwriter on Friday June 29, 2018 @06:46PM (#17428427)
> Naming streets is the entire point of a street map

No, it's not. Showing where streets go is important independent of naming; street maps exist for places with unnamed streets (and include the unnamed streets), which would not be the case if mapping names to streets (or vice versa) were the entire point.

Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by mulmen on Friday June 29, 2018 @06:51PM (#17428452)
Ok fine, it's only a very valuable feature.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by mrep on Friday June 29, 2018 @10:53PM (#17429253)
But aren't streets just a way to get to a places and therefore places are more important than street names?
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by redial on Saturday June 30, 2018 @01:47AM (#17429654)
No. When I visit friends I go to 1432 Union St. not to Walmart. I wouldn't even know how to tell the taxi driver where I want to go if not by the address.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by drag0nballz on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:13PM (#17426935)
I think he's talking about when you are in turn by turn directions you can get into a mode where there is no way to get out. You need to throw away the app to get out.
Re:Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up by jonknee on Friday June 29, 2018 @03:17PM (#17426967)
How do you do that? I've navigated at least 50k miles with Google Maps and have never encountered this once.