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Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by colechristensen on Monday June 18, 2018 @11:51PM (#17343691)
It doesn't strike me as paranoia. Thinking that industrial espionage doesn't happen seems naive.

What they have is an admitted saboteur and code that exports data to third parties. It quacks like a duck. A disgruntled employee succumbed to or sought out people who wished to do harm to Tesla.

There's plenty of evidence of similar things happening. (edit to fix words)

If you work in the defense industry you get things like this drilled into you as regular required training. It's not paranoia, it happens regularly.

He's a bit odd in how he addresses the problem, and calling out potential threats was perhaps an unusual choice, but not unwarranted.

American companies have overthrown governments to benefit their business, stealing secrets and sabotaging a competitor isn't exactly out of the ordinary.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by TimTheTinker on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:04AM (#17343743)
Great comment, but I’m not sure what events you’re referring to when you say:

> American companies have overthrown governments to benefit their business

Care to elaborate?

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by colechristensen on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:15AM (#17343784)
The United Fruit Company lobbied successfully for the overthrow the Guatemalan government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A...

CIA plans and arranges Iranian overthrow of PM (along with UK) over interference with a predecessor to BP (concisely detailing who owned what is hard)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by TimTheTinker on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:20AM (#17343813)
Wow, I hadn’t heard of that - pretty horrible stuff. Thanks for the info.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:31AM (#17344060)
I'm not trying to be mean here, but: you never wondered why so many people in Iran hated the US enough to call it the "Great Satan"? I know we've had a generation or so of leaders over here who just prattle on about "they hate us for our freedom", but I'm kind of boggled by the idea that people don't get curious and wonder what really set off the level of virulent hatred of the US (and European powers) that existed and still exists in various parts of the world.

So much of the turmoil and violence around the world today is fallout from meddling by western powers over the last couple centuries. Want to understand the modern middle east? Got to dig into the US overthrow of Iran's government, the background of the British rise to prominence (WWI and the Sykes-Picot agreement), etc. Want to understand trouble in just about any part of Africa? Dig back to what the European colonizers did to the place, and hoo boy wait till you learn the truth about Belgium.

You really cannot even begin to pretend to have a hint of a grasp on modern world politics and conflicts without understanding this stuff.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by eecc on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:11AM (#17344188)
You can also have a look at Hypernormalization, a documentary by Adam Curtis where he draws the origin of suicidal terrorism to the meddlings of Kissinger in Assad’s (senior) Syria.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by Alex3917 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:44AM (#17344088)
Or, more relevantly, why immigrants from Guatemala and Honduras are increasingly coming to the U.S.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by rorykoehler on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:55AM (#17344124)
Not to nitpick because you are spot on but I think you need to go back to at least the D'Arcy Concession to understand the modern Middle East.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:45AM (#17344295)
You could really write a couple doctoral theses just doing a review of the stuff necessary to understand contemporary middle-eastern conflicts and politics. I tried to pick a couple things as examples rather than write those theses :)
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by rorykoehler on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:24AM (#17345294)
True. I only mentioned it because of it's significance in relation to the long running war over oil in the Middle East. The ME has however held importance as a trading route since the beginnings of what became the silk road.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by TimTheTinker on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:21AM (#17345281)
I may be betraying ignorance (I always love to learn—thanks!), but before today, I assumed that had to do with the US being Israel’s closest ally, since Iran from the beginning has hated Israel for what I assumed were religious reasons, and the fact that a non-Islamic country has (parts of) Jerusalem after over 1000 years of wars over who gets to have it (many of which were at least partly religiously motivated — or at least that’s how it was spun to gain support).

That and an impression that Iran “wants to do bad things” (like human rights violations and irresponsible ownership of nuclear weapons), and doesn’t like world powers keeping those plans at bay.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @08:50AM (#17346054)
You can Google around for articles on what places like Iran and Afghanistan used to look like. They're instructive. Then read up on the history of those countries, and how things went wrong.

It's also instructive to pay attention to the names. Some of them are going to jump out at you, and at least a couple times you're going to think "wait, isn't he the bad guy" when, once upon a time, some recognizable name was "on our side" (but really was on his own side all along, and willing to play at doing a major power's bidding in order to get funded/armed/maintained in power/etc.).

And some of the names of the foreign-policy wonks are going to get eerily repetitive, and you'll wonder how these guys managed to stay cozy with administration after administration despite their track record of literally leaving desolation around the world. Worse: you're going to read their bios and find out some of them are still in positions of power and being taken seriously today.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by killaken2000 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:42AM (#17345381)
There also issues of regime change which a nice way of putting a list of unsavory tactics and how regions of the middle east used to be quite progressive and modern before these tactics over the years had taken their toll on the region.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by zanedb on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:42AM (#17344289)
> and hoo boy wait till you learn the truth about Belgium.

Enlighten me.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by beefield on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:51AM (#17344324)
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:49AM (#17344314)
Read a good article, or even Wikipedia, on Leopold II of Belgium, his "Congo Free State", and the aftermath.

Leopold's Congo was so horrifying that when he gave up personally ruling it and let it be turned into "just" an ordinary colony where the colonizing government and its companies worked hand-in-glove to ruthlessly exploit the place at the expense of the locals... that was actually better than it had been under Leopold's direct rule. Under personal rule by Leopold, estimates of the death toll in the Congo range at least into the millions and possibly over ten million.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by Ar-Curunir on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:33AM (#17344255)
There is an astounding level of ignorance about Western meddling in foreign countries among Westerners; for instance, I don't think many Americans know of CIA-backed coups in socialist-leaning countries.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by ben_w on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:59AM (#17344358)
Regarding “The Great Satan”, I’d assumed that was just boring old xenophobia. Possibly with a dash of mistranslation, hyperbole, and nut picking.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by bsenftner on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:00AM (#17343970)
There's a CIA guy who had a career setting up governments, and he published his diary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by locusm on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:06AM (#17344167)
That's China's playbook now in the South Pacific. Lots of expensive infrastructure and hundreds of millions in loans to Countries that don't need it.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by achow on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:13AM (#17343773)
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by rmetzler on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:27AM (#17344048)
Philip Agee wrote about what the CIAs modus operandi was in "Inside the Company: CIA Diary" and his later books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by geofft on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:51AM (#17343949)
This is how Hawaii went from an independent kingdom trading with the US to a territory (and then a state).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Kingdom_of_Ha...

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by ghufran_syed on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:42AM (#17343903)
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by TomVDB on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:12AM (#17343769)
My immediate reaction would be the United Fruit Company and it’s dealings in South America.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

But I’m sure you can find instances where oil companies heavily influence politics in governments all over the world.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by loggedinmyphone on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:11AM (#17344187)
An interesting case is the US driving Colombia out of Panama when the Colombian senate refused to approve the Panama Canal. The war is considered to have been engineered by the New Panama Canal Company including Bunau-Varilla and William Nelson Cromwell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Bunau-Varilla#Separat...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/628408.How_Wall_Street_C...

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by mmjaa on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:53AM (#17344115)
It is precisely because we cannot trust the US government, that those of us still living outside of the purview of the 5-eyes nations are utterly unwilling to put up with the heinous powers granted the NSA, which services its 'customers' with near-impunity and utter lack of civil oversight. If you thought UFC is bad (it was) and if it is the only example you know, consider what the NSA is currently capable of doing, with regards to corporate espionage, and who it works for ...
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by rdm_blackhole on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:33AM (#17344068)
If you read Noam Chomsky's "Who rules the world?", you will find plenty of examples of the USA overthrowing a government to bring "peace and prosperity". It's pretty common actually.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by workthrowawayn on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:13AM (#17343775)
United Fruit Company is the origin of the phrase "Banana Republic"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by TaylorAlexander on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:33AM (#17344069)
It’s so upsetting to me that there’s a clothing store with that name. It seems like it’s mocking the people whose countries have been overthrown for someone’s profit. This from a store that sells clothes made by people who could never afford them.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by loggedinmyphone on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:25AM (#17344233)
How do you feel about Disneyland making a ride out of Pirates of the Caribbean?
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by forapurpose on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:18AM (#17344024)
Much of U.S. Mideast activity is aimed at securing the oil supply. There is another, very serious reason for those actions (I'm not saying it justifies them): Securing the world's energy supply, without which the world economy would stumble and fall. But the activities also benefit U.S. oil companies, and who can say what is necessary for which purpose. Also note that a former oil company CEO was U.S. Secretary of State until recently.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by gonvaled on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:30AM (#17344055)
Not only american companies: the american government does it in a regular basis. Here is one example: https://www.facts-are-facts.com/news/iranian-oil-bourse

It is not paranoia if they are really after you.

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by dboreham on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:11AM (#17343768)
Not the parent but this example comes to mind : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

(A British multinational company, but US did the overthrowing)

Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by simtel20 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:24AM (#17343830)
The first example that comes to mind is the influence of United Fruit in Central and South American military policy in the last century. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars for instance.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by nope96 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:12AM (#17343770)
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by mikeytown2 on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:08AM (#17343758)
Iran in the 1950s
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by janimo on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:47AM (#17344305)
Killing Hope and Overthrow are two books on the subject.
Re:Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging ... by an_account_name on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @12:15AM (#17343786)
The United Fruit Company comes to mind.