rdm_blackhole
I don't think I can agree with you on that:
> On Oct. 21, French Economy Minister Roland Lescure said in an interview that the violence and unrest had caused “tens or perhaps hundreds of millions” of euros worth of damage.
Seems like overblown is not exactly the appropriate word here. Not too mention the the loss of reputation which could keep future tourists away from France, the loss of revenue from the shops that have had to close since they did not want to be looted or burned down and finally the loss of trust in the state's ability to maintain order.
> the major issue with opening a business (regardless of the country)
Well it is especially hard in France considering the record tax rates that France is imposing on its citizens. The cost to actually employ someone is high compared to many countries in the OECD.
Furthermore, the inability to reform the state to restore competitiveness won't improve in the near future whoever wins the presidency next year.
It doesnt really matter. The damage is already done.
Macron tried to turn France (unsuccessfully one might say) into a country that is open to tech businesses. This law amongst other things (record tax rates, record deficit, weak economic growth, political instability, riots and much more) is simply another signal that opening a business in France today is just too risky and this will impact future growth for sure.
You have countries that look to the future and invest in it and then you have France.
Reddit has completely turned me off with their user hostile policies. I used to browse Reddit without having an account while drinking my coffee in the morning.
Now, I need to be logged in otherwise the responses in a thread or posts in the sub-reddits are hidden behind a non-removal modal on mobile.
Well, Reddit sorry to say but it did not work and now I read a book.
This is part of the net-0 narrative and the degrowth movement that's been growing(no pun intended) in Europe. Nevermind that growth in the EU is already pretty low to begin with...
Not saying that this is not a stupid law nonetheless.
Maybe I am just paranoid but at least if OAI or Anthropic ban my account I am not at the risk of losing access to my email address too.
You never know with Google and that is a problem.
Also it's impossible to get verified on the Discord server to see what's going on and the support link in the dashboard leads to a 404 page.
I am kinda losing patience here.
Also they regenerated credentials for buckets but stopped deployments so the services could not connect to the buckets. Completely stupid. If you are going to regenerate the credentials, then let us redeploy the services.
It must be so nice to live in this imaginary world where the left does no wrong whatsoever but the right is the evil incarnate.
Furthermore, who decides what lies are and what truth is and who is responsible for enforcing this?
Good day.
No offense but did you read the article? if not, maybe go do that.
Everyone knew it when these sort of measures were first discussed here way back when and everyone knew that they would be bypassed as soon as they were implemented.
But politicians, lobbies, and everyone else who gains from this do not care.
Did you know there are 30000++ lobbyists in Brussels? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro...
That's 40 lobbyists for every EU parliament member.
Finally, lobbying is not a bad thing per se. Take the Chat Control issue that the EU has been pushing down the throat of its citizens for the last 5 years, the worst aspects of it have been watered down (slightly) because of citizens lobbying their MPs to defend their privacy rights.
Everyone can become a lobby and make their voices heard and that is how it's supposed to work.
Are you willing to live in the EU knowing that for the next 8 years the EU agencies will have access to every single message, email and picture you send your loved ones just in case one of those could be CSAM?
Even if that was overturned, how will one know if he data they intercepted and illegally obtained will be destroyed or if the text messages you sent to your wife/husband are not going to end up sold to the highest bidder on the darkweb?
> given the constitutions of various EU countries
EU law superseded any state law by default and that's by design. Even if the EU law is immoral and dangerous like the Chat Control law.
So a country's constitution will not save you if tomorrow all chat apps are doing client side scanning.
That is false. They are not proposals, they are being actively discussed in trilogues which is way way past proposal stage.
Chat control V2 trilogue negotiation was last week and it included mass scanning of messages and private data. Thankfully the EU parliament rejected the idea but every 6 months like clockwork it comes back. The next trilogue is in November.
https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/chat-control-2-0-trilogue-u...
If this was passed, it would force every single cloud provider and e2e chat provider to keep, filter and pass on your private information to Europol and other security agencies.
I agree with you and I wish more people would understand that Trump is only a symptom of the issue.
Its the same in Europe where everyone is somehow discovering in 2026 that the far-right and far-left parties actually want to do what they say they will do if they get in power.
Instead of addressing the concerns of the population, all they do is talk about how bad these parties would be and try every which way to contain them except never trying to even understand or fix the issues these people are complaining about.
It was the same strategy used by Macron in France in 2017 and 2022.
Step 1: Pretend you care and tinker on the margins but fundamentally don't change anything. Step 2: Paint the opposition on the left and right as monsters that will bring chaos and disorder to the country. Step 3: Present yourself as the only one capable of containing said chaos.
In one word: TINA
Except TINA is no longer working and the mainstream parties are being challenged a lot more because people have trusted them for so long and they are no longer interested in waiting for them to actually deliver on what they promised to do years ago.
So you get Reform in the UK, One Nation in Australia, National Rally in France, the AFD in Germany, Swedish democrats in Sweden and much more....
The parties in charge could have tried to address the issues that are fueling the rise of the far-right across Europe, they could have listened to the concerns of their citizens even if they did not agree with their ideas.
Instead, they have let the situation deteriorate and portrayed themselves as the only solution to the problems they never addressed and it backfired spectacularly.
As Jack Kerouac said: After Me, the Deluge.
I agree that is why I said that it was higher threshold to get access to your data but warrants can be obtained for many different reasons and not always good ones either.
All I am saying is that if they want your data, they'll get it. It's just easier at the border.
If you are a UK citizen, they will charge you under the terrorism act if you refuse to answer their questions or if you try to conceal anything or if you refuse to provide all the passwords to all your devices.
As for what happens when you can genuinely not remember your passwords, I honestly don't know. The guy in the video just gave them access to everything because he travels a lot and did not want to have to explain why he has a terrorism charge to his name every-time he has to apply for a new visa.
Maybe you can refuse and stay silent and fight the charge later in court with a good lawyer but who knows. IANAL so do your own research before doing anything.
As for what happens if you are a foreigner and refuse to unlock your devices/ answer their questions, they can deport you and potentially ban you from entering the country for a certain amount of time or indefinitely.
I think you are wrong. We all have things to hide.
A joke between friends taken out of context. Your angry messages to a spouse or parent after a fight happened between you and them could be used out of context also. And what about your YouTube history and playlist or your web history...
> just your own home
Your home can be searched and all your devices at home can be seized as well. Granted it's probably a higher threshold than having everything on your phone but it's no a panacea either.
The UK border agents (technically counter-terrorism) can stop you at the border, force you into a room, ask for your passwords to all your devices and you don't have the right to refuse.
You also don't have the right to have a lawyer be in a room with you and you are compelled to answer all their questions and finally they do not need to tell you why they stopped you.
Then, if you are lucky they return your devices 7 days later after they have been through everything or they can keep them forever if they find something suspicious.
This guy (who is a British citizen) went through it last year and talks about the whole procedure: https://youtu.be/991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj
The UK border agents (technically counter-terrorism) can stop you at the border, force you into a room, ask for your passwords to all your devices and you don't have the right to refuse.
You also don't have the right to a lawyer to be in a room with you and you are compelled to answer all their questions and they do not need to tell you why they stopped you.
Then, if you are lucky they return your devices 7 days later after they have been through everything.
This guy went through it last year and talks about what happens when they stop you: https://youtu.be/991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj
To name a few issues currently at play: - chat control V1 and v2 - social media ban for users less than 16 years old - digital id required to be able to prove one's age and therefore post on social media - end of anonymity for users on the web since now everything you say is tied to your real ID and recorded due to Chat Control - state paid fact checkers that would be empowered to flag and force the removal of content from social media platforms that is deemed false or incorrect (by whom, how, nobody knows)
All of this done in order to supposedly either fight terrorism, the far right or protect the children and it is pushed by the lobbies whose main figurehead is notably Ashton Kutcher who through his foundation just happen to be selling software to detect CP images and is ready to sign a big juicy contract with the EU in case Chat Control v2 passes.
There is a clear erosion of the notion that privacy is a sacred right and it is clear departure from what the EU was supposed to be at the start.
The proponents here on HN and elsewhere who love to claim that the EU is a better place in terms of digital privacy are either deluded or lying to themselves and to other people.
While many decry China's and Russia's authoritarianism, it is clear that the EU is building a digital fortress where everything a person says online will be recorded, catalogued, analyzed and saved in perpetuity in case this person becomes a problem in the future either because of their political views or any other matter that will be deemed important by the EU.
And if you think this is an exaggeration of the situation, you can Google: - Chat Control V1 and V2 - Digital service act - Democracy shield - Protect EU - EU Going Dark working group
All of this stuff has been documented and criticized by privacy activists extensively.
Between that and the Democracy shield which is basically state paid fact checkers fighting against supposedly foreign interference, can anyone say that the EU is still the best place regarding citizens privacy?
You also don't have the right to a lawyer to be in a room with you and you are compelled to answer all their questions and they do not need to tell you why they stopped you.
Then if you are lucky they return your devices 7 days later after they have been through everything.
This guy went through it last year and talks bout what happens when they stop you: https://youtu.be/991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj
Who decides what is misinformation? The state? The ministry of truth? That is the problem with this sort of wishful thinking.
> used to manipulate the population
The media industry manipulates opinions via TV channels and newspapers and has done so for the last 50 years. Heck, some states have their own TV channels like the BBC, France Info (France) , SVT (Sweden) which is completely ironic since the state funds them and there is no way to know how neutral these are.
> dangerous information
Dangerous information is a misnomer. You could print out how to build an atom bomb and give the step-by-step instructions for free in entire neighborhoods and no one will be able to build it because you need the right expertise and the materials to create one.
Same with bio-weapons unless you think you can develop these in your kitchen after work?
Secondly, we are back to the same problem. Who decides what is "dangerous information" and how far would you be willing to go to contain it? Censor social media? Censor private messages? What about emails? Textbooks? Listening devices in all homes? Cameras that you can't turn off in your toilet in case you pass information to someone else while taking a crap?
You can get stopped at the border, forced to talk to the border agents, you do not have the right to have a lawyer in the room during the interrogation (although you can have one phone call before your interrogation starts), you do not have the right to refuse to answer questions and they will seize your phone and computers and send them back to you later. Also you will have to provide your passwords and pin-codes for your devices.
This guy went through it last year: https://youtu.be/991kRp8KUmo?si=AFfJA3erydfZZFj1
I think you may have missed the part where Sweden just joined NATO recently. As long as the EU countries are in NATO which is de facto under American leadership, then there will be no strategic autonomy.
Secondly, even if the mood is sour between the US and the EU currently, Germany, Poland and other small eastern states very much still like to have the US as backers if only just for the fact that there is no EU army.
If the EU countries were leaving NATO to form their own military alliance, then I would agree with you but that hasn't happened and maybe never will.