News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Exuma on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:04PM (#17339300)
I remember going on vacation with my parents and all I had was the Diablo game manual, because I got the game 1 hour before we left. I read the manual about 100 times in the car... good memories
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by spapas82 on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:16PM (#17339397)
I remember trying to play Diablo multiplayer through a 55.6 kbps modem. It was nice for like 5 minutes but then the connection lagged and I couldn't control my character. When the connection quality improved, I saw my character dead with all his (high level and very diffucult to find) gear stolen by other players.

I was so frustrated I removed the cdrom from the drive and threw it on the wall; the cd broke and that was the last time I played Diablo...

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by stormbrew on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:35PM (#17339571)
There's a very real possibility it wasn't your connection that was the problem. Since Diablo 1 was a peer to peer game it was super easy to just flood another player to lag them out and steal their crap.

The game's public multiplayer was notoriously full of griefing like that. There were also ways to get firewalls to go on the spawn point and pvp was easy to force.

It was a mess. Going into a public game was basically just asking to get screwed over.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by gameswithgo on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:17PM (#17339911)
What is fascinating is the guy who coded and designed the multiplayer is actually a genius, he was just inexperienced at the time. His next big project was a huge, complicated, MMO that you could start playing before it finished downloading, and everything worked from day 1, which is rather unique among MMOs!]

edit, sorry: Pat Wyatt of Guild Wars

good interview with him talking about screwing up Diablo and doing a good job on Guild Wars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1faaOrtHJ-A

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Reedx on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:39PM (#17340576)
Oh yeah, I remember being really impressed by the Guild Wars/ArenaNet tech at launch. It felt like a game changer.

Heck, they did a better job than most games do to this day. Often when a game has the ability to start before completing the download, it just means you get to look at the main menu.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by stevenwoo on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @05:43PM (#17350510)
It also really helped a lot of folks in the game development community when Carmack published his thoughts on dealing with latency in QuakeWorld around that time, and the Valve guys working with the Quake3(?) engine published something a bit later that pretty good IIRC.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by floor_ on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @02:24PM (#17349109)
I love the part where he talks about people thinking the installer was broken or didn't download fully because it was so small. They ended up padding it with some assets to make it feel more authentic.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by IntelMiner on Monday June 18, 2018 @10:05PM (#17343252)
I emailed him a few times about the reverse-engineering effort for the old Battle.Net games (PVPGN)

He's a really nice, approachable guy as well. He was quite impressed at how well the program worked, even with how old the games were

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by amatecha on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:24PM (#17339966)
Which programmer/game was that? Mike O'Brien on Guild Wars? (Just going through credits on mobygames ;))
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by gameswithgo on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:46PM (#17340144)
Pat Wyatt - Guild Wars
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by amatecha on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:14PM (#17340359)
Ah! OK, I saw his name too and figured that was also potentially the person. Oh, he was a founder of ArenaNet?!! Very cool! I met a lot of their staff last year at PAX. Great group of ppl IMO and those I spoke to were proud to work there. I guess Pat would be one of the founders they spoke of! :)
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by fusiongyro on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:22PM (#17339959)
And who and what is that?
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by gameswithgo on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:46PM (#17340145)
Pat Wyatt - Guild Wars
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Namrog84 on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:24PM (#17339969)
What mmo? Or what was his name?
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by gameswithgo on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:46PM (#17340148)
Pat Wyatt - Guild Wars
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by digi_owl on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:51PM (#17340682)
Weird, my impression was that the Guild Wars people were ex-Microsoft. Do wonder where i picked that up...
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Exuma on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:30PM (#17340025)
Who was it?
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by gameswithgo on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:46PM (#17340149)
Pat Wyatt - Guild Wars
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by brobinson on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:58PM (#17340231)
You could make yourself invulnerable in multiplayer games using Great-BoBaFeTT's trainer.

http://www.geocities.ws/free_bobafett/main.htm

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Exuma on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:01PM (#17340263)
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by softawre on Monday June 18, 2018 @03:04PM (#17340802)
Great talk!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by quadcore on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:36PM (#17339582)
Sometimes, you can still use a broken cd.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by lfowles on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:54PM (#17339709)
I wouldn't risk it anymore. One time I received an ever so slightly cracked DVD from Netflix. Desperate to watch the show without waiting for a better copy to be mailed, I stuck it in the computer anyways. Ended up shattering and taking my DVD drive with it!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Splines on Monday June 18, 2018 @07:19PM (#17342425)
I don't know about OG diablo but you might be able to register your cd key on Blizzard's site and play the game through their on-line launcher.

I know this works (or worked) with Warcraft 3.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by sidusknight on Monday June 18, 2018 @10:50PM (#17343460)
OG Diablo didn't even have a cd-key, unfortunately.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by dalore on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:04PM (#17339795)
That's one way to get a free DVD drive from Netflix.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by megous on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:47PM (#17340649)
Or just go buy it for $10.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by lfowles on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @08:32AM (#17345959)
Grabbed an external HDDVD drive for the $10 actually. Even came with a handful of movies at that price!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by snuxoll on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:06PM (#17340289)
Ironically (in context of this thread) the one time I've had this happen was my Diablo II CD way back in the day, I don't know if it was damaged or if the disk just got stressed from heat but it shattered and ruined the drive in my mother's computer.

I have no love for optical media anymore.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by spapas82 on Monday June 18, 2018 @03:14PM (#17340871)
The cd was completely broken in 4-5 pieces. Actally I was impressed of how badly it was damaged because I had thrown other CDs down and they didn't even get a scratch (they were mainly cd-r though)!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by jmts on Monday June 18, 2018 @07:41PM (#17342554)
I used up all the spins on a Lord of Destruction CD years ago too. Had a hard time convincing my computer retailer that the cause of death was natural causes. I still have the largest shard tucked away somewhere - the rest was dust.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by im3w1l on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:01PM (#17340266)
I played Diablo II on a 55.6 kbps modem. Worked fine.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by T-hawk on Monday June 18, 2018 @03:01PM (#17340771)
Diablo II specifically includes design elements to be playable via 56k dialup.

1) Latency hiding. The results of actions are determined ahead of time. The hit chance and damage value for melee swings and missile shots (arrows, spell effects) are calculated when you start a weapon swing or bow fire or spellcasting action. The duration of the action hides the network lag; by the time your sword finishes swinging, the packet describing the results has arrived.

2) Low bandwidth. The client does a lot of autonomous prediction and extrapolation. The server typically sends updates of monster positions at intervals of several seconds, rather than every frame. This can create situations where your attacks seem to automatically miss because the monster you think you're attacking isn't where your client thinks it is. But better to have that "lag haze" than to not be playable at all for lack of bandwidth.

This was all implemented for Diablo II after learning from the first Diablo.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by amatecha on Monday June 18, 2018 @05:10PM (#17341716)
Yeah, I played on a 28.8 modem. What he's describing is probably the result of someone using a "trainer"/cheat software that would essentially packet-flood the other player(s) so you can kill them and take all their stuff while they cannot respond/escape. Happened all the time once those hacks became prevalent, kinda ruined the [public multiplayer aspect of the] game IMO :(
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by amatecha on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:16PM (#17339398)
haha! I remember borrowing my friend's WarCraft 2 manual before I could play the game (wasn't yet out for Mac), and imagining the epic gameplay. Back in the days when games actually came with a manual and often included tons of awesome artwork you wouldn't see elsewhere. :) Actually reminds me I scanned some of the artwork and printed them out so I could color them -- still have a couple of those!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by jczhang on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:01PM (#17339770)
The first Diablo manual had great background stories and mythology. When I watched Constantine for the first time, I realize it had the same setting as Diablo!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by digi_owl on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:52PM (#17340689)
They reuse some religious themes etc, but other than that they are not related what so ever...
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by jczhang on Monday June 18, 2018 @03:12PM (#17340852)
I mean the whole idea of heaven and hell fighting for power and that they are not supposed to have any physical influence, but the demons of hell sneak in anyways, not just by mental influence but physically as well. That's how the Diablo 1 story begins, with the corruption of the Archbishop (I remember way too much lol).
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by tarsinge on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @05:26AM (#17344999)
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by mkirklions on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @08:30AM (#17345942)
I think this is why it was so epic.

As a kid evil is the worst thing ever. No 'bad guy' quite compared...

Until Diablo

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by kirbypineapple on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:18PM (#17339408)
For me it was the Starcraft game manual. I took that thing everywhere!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by jakebellacera on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:37PM (#17340081)
Same here! I was OBSESSED with that game as a kid and took the manual with me to school every day for a couple of weeks. Developing custom maps actually got me into programming (setting up triggers, building maps, etc). I remember trying to storyboard my custom "campaign" during recess, and even went so far as recording voice prompts. So many memories!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by mbauman on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:24PM (#17339968)
Same. I took the manual to school for weeks so my friends and I could look at all the crazy Metzen illustrations.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by picsao on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:39PM (#17340097)
Those illustrations and stories where the reason I bought SC.. Event though wc2 was just a polished dune clone
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by SiempreViernes on Monday June 18, 2018 @04:30PM (#17341455)
I still have the tech tree from Civ 2 saved in my bookshelf, along with the Caesar III manual...
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by raesene9 on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:09PM (#17339853)
For me it was the Bard's Tale. A demo of Skara brae and a couple of levels of the first dungeon was put on a magazine cover in the UK months before the game came out.

I played that demo to oblivion, I can still pretty much remember all the street layouts

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Hallucinaut on Monday June 18, 2018 @06:57PM (#17342306)
Absolutely the same addiction here. Even the identical looking houses (at least on the CPC464) I'm pretty sure by muscle memory I could find the Guild and dungeon entrances, I did them so many times.

I loved that game so much I finally, last week, made it to Orkney to see the actual Skaea Brae. Little bit of artistic licence taken, but Orkney is an amazing place to visit regardless.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by ChuckMcM on Monday June 18, 2018 @03:18PM (#17340910)
Someone at G3 had the music from the Inn as their ring tone (go figure) and when their phone rang I was instantly back in the game even though I hadn't played in over a decade by then.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by robodale on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:37PM (#17340558)
The Bard's Tale - I had that for my Commodore 64 back in the day. Absolutely loved that game. I'm pretty sure I would mourn the loss when members of my party died.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by JohnBooty on Monday June 18, 2018 @05:49PM (#17341935)
"Name the endless byway"
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by isolli on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:34PM (#17339561)
I fondly remember the Ultima VI manual, complete with cloth map. Those were the days :)
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by wsgeek on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:11PM (#17339868)
Ultima IV for me.... Good times
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Digit-Al on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:23PM (#17340442)
Ultima Underworld 2. I can still remember the joy of reaching a high enough level to kill one terrible beast after having to load goodness knows how many saved games after the bastard had killed me yet again.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Waterluvian on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:18PM (#17340400)
I had the exact same experience. That was also my first true adolescent introduction to the female form with the full page rogue showing some rather PG-13 characteristics.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by learc83 on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:09PM (#17339337)
Same thing happened to me with Diablo 2. It came out while my family was visiting my aunt on the other side of the country. My parents bought it for me, but my aunt and uncle didn't have a computer that could play it, so I spent the week looking through the manual.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by LoSboccacc on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:43PM (#17339638)
I had the inverse with carmageddon. I used to study abroad so I waited till I was on vacation to get the uncensored edition, then carried the box all the way home. The manual wasn’t as tick nor as useful as caesar iii’s tho.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Exuma on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:59PM (#17339760)
Holy crap I forgot about that game
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by paulmd on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:56PM (#17340729)
But wait, it gets better: it's on GOG now.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by LoSboccacc on Monday June 18, 2018 @05:09PM (#17341711)
And there’s a not great but decemt enough remake on steam
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by wingerlang on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @03:13AM (#17344407)
And the original is in iOS (and Android I guess) as well.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by robbiep on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:23PM (#17339462)
Civ 2 for me

Game manuals are a lost art :(

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by amatecha on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:32PM (#17339548)
I sometimes pick up copies of old games I never owned but always wanted (or played at friends' houses, etc.) -- just so I can have the physical media with the awesome manual full of artwork and so on. They are becoming harder and harder to find!
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by megaman22 on Monday June 18, 2018 @08:12PM (#17342718)
I miss the days of actual boxed games, with real manuals in them. So much nostalgia for going to the mall and finding a rare treasure that would run on my decrepit 586 in the back of EB Games, then reading the manual cover to cover a couple times waiting for my mom to finish up shopping and drive home.

I hope I still have my Warcraft, Lords of the Realm 2, Close Combat 2 and Civilization 2 manuals somewhere.

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by BadassFractal on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:25PM (#17339976)
Reading the game manual was one of my favorite rituals when I couldn't actually get to play the game for a while, amazing memories.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by mikepurvis on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:32PM (#17340043)
Caesar II was that one for me— got the game for Christmas and then immediately was in the car to visit family for a week.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by samplatt on Monday June 18, 2018 @06:39PM (#17342195)
"Plebs are needed!" is still a phrase between my brother and myself whenever we need an arbitrary increase of effort.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by cabaalis on Monday June 18, 2018 @04:30PM (#17341454)
That manual and the warcraft/starcraft manuals are responsible for a large part of the person I am. I was 10 at the time, and the universes that Blizzard created got me into gaming, from there into social gaming (m:tg) and then into computers and programming so that I could make my own games.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by filesystemdude on Monday June 18, 2018 @09:16PM (#17343032)
Ditto. I tried to write a .pud editor in QBasic in about the summer of '98 or '99, and built a WarCraft fan site for my Kali/Engage gaming clan with entirely hand-coded HTML and some random and probably terribly-insecure cgi-bin Perl scripts for guestbooks and whatnot. I probably learned more from that than any single other time period in my tech career.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by AcerbicZero on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:21PM (#17339440)
I did something similar with the Starcraft manual...the art work alone was awesome.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by norbertdragan on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @05:38AM (#17345054)
Are you me? I had this exact same experience with the Diablo 2 manual.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Fnoord on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:00AM (#17345171)
I did the exact same with the Warcraft 2 manual.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Fnoord on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @05:59AM (#17345164)
What's better is that your name is a reference to Exuma - Baäl [1] from 1970

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y94GLSGVRWg

Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by digi_owl on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:54PM (#17340708)
I did something similar with a set of manuals for a Microprose B-17 simulator. Thing is that one of the manuals where more of a history text book going over all the tech and such used to guide the bombers to their targets.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by robohamburger on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:17PM (#17340389)
I met a friend, who I am still friends with today by lending them my Diablo 1 manual in class. That was an amazing manual.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by phusion on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:22PM (#17340432)
Yeah, the day I bought the game, along with my best friend and PC gaming buddy, after playing for hours, we stayed up really late as I read the manual aloud. Ahh memories.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by khalilravanna on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @10:15AM (#17346808)
I remember bringing the manuals for Civ II, Black & White, and Morrowind to school. Oh man, I miss manuals
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Exuma on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @01:33PM (#17348628)
Black and white!!! I forgot about that too. I also read it about 100 times for The Sims
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by Zardoz84 on Monday June 18, 2018 @04:23PM (#17341399)
original Heroes of Might&Magic. Had a great deal of lore with the mails of Lord Iron First to his brother.
Re:Diablo devolved – magic behind the 1996 computer game by catacombs on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @06:10PM (#17350692)
That must have been the longest vacation ever.