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Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @06:40PM (#17078543)
Being the sort of person who enjoys a regular tipple, when starting a startup (and conserving cash whereever possible), I got in the habit of blind testing wines and beers to find my favorite of the cheap ones.

For beer, especially, the main distinction between basic German pilsners (I live in Berlin) was the social class that they're marketed to. Price is a pretty poor predictor of quality or taste, but you can choose to spend anywhere from about 50 cents to €1.20 to get almost indistinguishable beers. That doesn't mean to say that some aren't better than others, but that price isn't a good predictor of where they fit on the quality scale. (With craft beers things are pretty different, however.) There are very obviously working class beers, professional beers, etc.

With wine, my impression that almost everything that was sold at a grocery store broadly fit into the category of generic cheap wine. There is a weak correlation between quality and price, but if you sampled a bunch of them, it wasn't hard to find bottles at €3 that were better than the average bottle at €6, and bottles at €6 that were as good as the average bottle at €12. (They don't get much more expensive than €12 in grocery stores here. Note, wine is about twice as expensive for the same quality in the US, in my experience.) Notably, none of those wines would be truly interesting, just better expressions of their archetype.

The most interesting way to taste wine that I've found is at high-end restaurants that do pairings. Having a professional that just picks out interesting wines that they think fit with particularly quirky dishes has yielded more interesting results for me than the handful of wine tastings I've done. They'll bring out stuff that's truly weird and interesting if you're used to grocery store wine. And here at least, once you've, ahm, stomached, what you're paying for the meal, the glasses of wine aren't exorbitant -- about €8/glass, even at a place with a couple Michelin stars.

Relative to the other categories of booze, the place where I have genuine expertise is whisky. I have a large collection that's, well, worth more than my car. The beautiful thing about whisky, however, is that you can keep bottles of different things open for years and compare them to each other. That makes it pretty easy to figure out where you get the best bang for your buck. Over about €35/bottle, there's not a particularly strong correlation between quality and price. There are even some fantastic whiskies below that that punch way above their price-class (e.g. Laphroiag Quarter Cask, or Rittenhouse Rye). While there are some particularly unique and great expensive whiskies, even for a trained tongue and nose, it's absolutely no guarantee that a €100 bottle will be better than a good €40 bottle. Often it will just be rarer, and stroke the whisky-nerd ego to a greater extent. ;-)

Re:Has wine gone bad? by nimbix on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @06:21AM (#17081251)
Laphroiag Quarter Cask was the first "proper" whisky I bought. You can imagine my disappointment over the following months as I was trying to find one that would be even more distinctive... nothing came even close. Though Caol Ila was a nice find for when I'm in the mood for something a bit lighter.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by KozmoNau7 on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:03AM (#17082014)
I have two Bunnahabhain SMWS bottlings (10.97 "Ch-ch-ch-Changes" and 10.100 "Pirate Ships are Burning") that both give QC a run for its money, and 10.100 handily surpasses it in my opinion. Strongly peated, 9 years old, cask strength (~63% ABV), unchillfiltered, natural color. Really distinctive, takes a bit of a run-up and will certainly put hair on your chest. No other whisky I've tasted has come close to being as ferocious an experience as those.

I can highly recommend becoming a member of SMWS, if they're in your area. They have some extremely interesting bottlings, and everything is presented in natural style, cask strength.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by 52-6F-62 on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @12:17PM (#17083580)
Both of those are among my favourites and it makes me happy to see them both mentioned in succession. Just tack on Lagavulin 12 year and you've got my birthday wish list.

My experience is as above, though. I've been searching for something a little more affordable as a "go-to" and I've been hard-pressed to find something.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by kayuri on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @10:13AM (#17082518)
There some more distinctive in my opinion, e.g. Lagavulin. Depends on what do you search for, of course.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by peterwwillis on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @12:58AM (#17080108)
There's three other good ways to try weird and interesting wines: 1) find liquor stores that have weekly wine tastings (often free!), 2) go to the biggest liquor distributor/wholesaler/outlet you can find and ask the most knowledgeable person questions, 3) go to wineries.

The last is obviously a privileged thing that not many can do, but if you are traveling, absolutely ask the locals what regional wines you should try, and what years. The weirdest & best wines I've had so far were in Delaware, Central California, Spain, Israel, South Africa, and Central France.

For example, I did a tour of some of the dozen wineries in Delaware (who knew?) and tried a varietal I hadn't heard of before: Norton. It's basically the only native American grape which is practically suited for winemaking, and has been in use since the 1700s. It was once so popular that a Missouri wine using it won "Best Red [Wine] of All Nations" in a competition in Vienna in 1873. The one I had was really weird tasting, and I highly recommend it.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @01:42AM (#17080249)
I got into drinking wine at all because I happened to live in the southern German white wine region (marvelously underrated -- I believe southern Germany produces some of the world's best white wines). I lived across the street from a ritzy department store (Galeria, in Mannheim) that hosted a local vintner every Saturday. You could walk in and try a shot glass of each of their range for free. After about a year of doing such, and perhaps 50-ish moderately priced (maybe €7, on average) bottles purchased, voila!, you were moderately competent about white wine.

Or so I thought. It turns out that even going to weekly tastings you don't stumble into the funky stuff. You'd never stumble into dessert wines or wines made with wild yeast. You'd rarely stumble across their barrel-aged whites. They knew what sold, and they'd highlight that.

I still order a case (12 bottles) or so a year from my favorite winery in southern Germany, where I met the vintner in said department store. I've even stumbled across one of their bottles from the sommelier in my favorite restaurant in Berlin. But it's truly only from high end restaurants (and their drink pairings) that I've discovered how wide the palette for wine goes. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I've been to Noma, mentioned in the lead to the original article, and their wine selection, like with most top end restaurants, is genuinely palette-stretching.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by lambdadmitry on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @03:41PM (#17085754)
Do you mind sharing which winery is it?
Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @04:34PM (#17086214)
Re:Has wine gone bad? by logfromblammo on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @11:53AM (#17083385)
Blind taste testing is essential. And since your tastes will differ from others, you can't rely on other people's results.

The spouse and I did a blind test on about 20 beers sold in mixed six-packs in the grocery store, and as a result switched our staple cooking-and-drinking beer from Yuengling Lager (amber lager) to Dos Equis Ambar (another amber lager), with the North American (Coors) version of Killian's Irish Red (actually another amber lager) also beating the incumbent. We both hated the pilsners and the IPAs, but disagreed on the darker varieties. We did agree that Guinness Blonde (an "American" lager) was the worst thing ever sold anywhere. We awarded it last place, and someone else ought to take mercy on its soul, because we will damn it forevermore whenever we hear its name (torment be upon it).

It's a bit more difficult to do wines, because it's really hard to find them in 12oz. bottles. So the wines get a series of "challenger versus incumbent" blind comparisons, between only two wines at a time. We have progressed as far as determining that we both prefer sweet to dry, and that some of the cheap stuff is better than some of the mid-priced stuff. The current champion is a sparkling fruity wine from Costco, which isn't always in stock. That said, some cheap wine is truly awful. Plenty of the stuff we try gets immediately demoted to cooking duty.

It's a lot more difficult to test distilled liquor, mainly because critical judgment deteriorates when you're drunk, and it wouldn't really be cost effective for us, unless we went to a bar with a half-dozen different brands on the bottom shelf. Six 375mL bottles of vodka would last us about 2 years. Some of the cheap brands don't sell in smaller bottles. And we would have to retest each after putting some through the pitcher filter.

If everyone did blind taste tests, I think the market for expensive "premium" liquor would collapse. So much of what you pay for at the upper end of the scale is just brand posturing and vapor.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by 1024core on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @06:48PM (#17078588)
> the place where I have genuine expertise is whisky

I like really peaty, smoky whiskies. What would you recommend on the cheap end?

Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @07:33PM (#17078794)
One of the two that I mentioned there, the Laphroiag Quarter Cask, is, in my opinion, the best bang-for-your-buck whisky on the market these days. It's super peaty. It's apparently now about €35 (for better or worse, whisky has become more trendy, and there's been a sharp uptick in the prices -- 3-4 years ago you could get said bottle for €22). It's seriously better than a lot of whiskies that go for twice that price. Basically, in a hackery-way -- they exploited that smaller barrels (with higher wood-to-liquid ratios) age whisky faster. That means they can produce better stuff on the cheap.

Another old standard of mine is the Talisker 10 year old. It's about the same price. It's not very complex, but has a powerful single taste. (When booze tasters say "complex", what they mean is that the taste changes over time from the moment it hits your tongue to the last bit of aftertaste. Something that "only has one note" isn't complex -- it means that it tastes the same in the aftertaste as it did the first moment. But "complex" isn't a euphemism for "good" -- it just means "changing".)

If you want to splurge a bit, two whiskies at about double that price are:

- Ardbeg Corryvreckan: in my not-so-humble opinion, better than Uigedail (that exelius remommends below; I have open bottles of both). It's so packed with flavor that it's a bit overwhelming. Also bottled at cask strength.

- Ben Riach 17: Not from the islands, like most peated whiskies, but has a mix of tastes of Speyside and Islay. Sadly, looking now, this has also recently gotten a lot more expensive. A couple years ago it was about €55, now it's €95.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by jen729w on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @09:34PM (#17079322)
Fun Talisker story. I'm at a nice underground (literally) bar here in Melbourne, Australia, with an excellent selection of whisky.

A young-ish but well dressed lad next to me was eyeing off the selection. Clearly wanted "a whisky" but had no idea what.

"Talisker is an excellent choice", I said, knowing that some of the heavier stuff – I go for a Lagavulin – would probably be a bit too much for his uninitiated palate.

He looked at the bottle. He realised it was "only" ten years old. And he said "no, I need something older".

I let the foolish young chap make his own decision.

(Oh, and curse you Americans for your ludicrous booze prices. A bottle of Lagavulin 16 here is $75.)

Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @09:48PM (#17079376)
To amplify that -- often whisky doesn't get better with age, or at least, not significantly enough to justify the price hike. I've tried (at the local whisky festival) most of the Talisker range, including distiller's editions, up to the 25 year old. The 10 year old is their stand-up whisky.

But beyond that, Scotch ages particularly slowly, because it, by law, can only be aged in reused barrels. A 10 year old bourbon is as old as the stones, because the barrels are, unsurprisingly, most reactive before being soaked with spirits for several years. Scotch, uniquely, mandates that the barrels cannot be first-use -- they have to be reused barrels from something else, which necessitates the very long aging times.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by stock_toaster on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @11:05PM (#17079730)
Many of the peat phenols (or is it esthers?) tend to break down over time in the cask, so peaty/smokey scotches actually can lose flavor over time — though with a good cask they can pick up woody complexity. Younger islas tend to be more vigorous!

Edit: I don’t believe there is a requirement in the law to only use previously used barrels. They are just cheaper (boubon IS by law required to use only new casks, which results in a lot of availability), and aren’t quite as active, allowing for more gentle maturation.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by stevekemp on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @01:46AM (#17080257)
I think this depends on your preferences. I like the Balvenie range, and that is easily available in 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 20, 25, & 30 year old varieties.

For sure the 30 year old bottle is €300 compared to €30 for the 8 year old, and it is hard to rationally say that it is ten times better, but it is _different_ and it tastes great.

I'd never pick a bottle based purely on the age, but there are differences and I personally tend to gravitate to the 18+ ages when I'm picking my single-malts.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by Hannan on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @12:38AM (#17080044)
>> Oh, and curse you Americans for your ludicrous booze prices. A bottle of Lagavulin 16 here is $75.

I'll readily admit the heavier cost is easier to swallow given our petrol and electricity prices.

edit: petrol instead of gas

Re:Has wine gone bad? by logfromblammo on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @12:38PM (#17083829)
It doesn't even help to live near the brewery. I drive through Tennessee and Kentucky frequently, and bourbon is more expensive than gasoline. The price is mostly taxes, regulatory compliance, trademark, and water rights.

If you're willing to scoff at the law, you can get something that tastes similar to a well-aged bourbon from an unlicensed distiller at a very low (relative) price, and any time you might have to wait for it is mostly because their trustworthy high-volume purchasers can jump ahead of you in line at any time. The moonshiners use tricks to flavor their product that are prohibited by law to anyone that wants to sell "bourbon" or "Tennessee whiskey", but since they're already outlaw, it doesn't cost them anything extra to put charred wood splints in a vat instead of using whole wood barrels, and forcibly cycle temperature and pressure to simulate the barrel-aging processes.

This area is just swimming in cheap grains, especially feed corn (aka maize), soft red winter wheat, barley, rice, rye, and sorghum. You can make beer out of any of it, and distill any beer into hard liquor. If you strip it down to pure azeotropic grain alcohol, you can dilute it back to 80 proof and add whatever flavors you want.

Some of the old-school outlaws have "gone legit" and sell their stuff (largely outsourced to one big industrial distillery, with one tiny local distillery kept mostly for show) as "flavored vodka" now. But that's just as expensive as anything else, because now they pay their taxes and comply with the laws and regulations.

It really is ludicrous. It is so cheap to make liquor here.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Thursday May 17, 2018 @01:56PM (#17093686)
I don't doubt there's plenty of illegal stuff but it's not illegal to sell whiskey like that, as long as you don't call it bourbon. Calling it whiskey is fine (though I don't know if there's a law on "Tennessee whiskey"). Legitimate craft distillers make all sorts of weird whiskeys.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by 1024core on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @12:00AM (#17079920)
Thanks! I like Laphroaig, and Ardbeg has been one of my favorites too. I haven't tried the Quarter Cask yet, I'll add it to my BevMo shopping list.

What do you think about Bruichladdich (sp?) ? Edit: I see /u/YeGoblynQueenne just suggested the Port Charlotte; that's the only one I've tried.

Actually, I now remember, I once saw Laphroaig's "Black Adder". It was so peaty, that they actually had pieces of charcoal in it! Didn't get a chance to try it though.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by TheAdamist on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:31AM (#17081832)
Bruichladdich octomore series is so gloriously peaty, but its expensive. $200/bottle approx. port charlotte was boring in comparison. some friends who like peat say the octomore is too much.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @02:19AM (#17080363)
Bruichladdich is good stuff, but for the stuff I've tasted, it's never been best-of-class. They've been great with marketing, and helped expand the market for Scotch, but at least, of the stuff I've tasted (I've had a couple bottles), they've been good, but not great for their price class. Taste-wise, I'd put them pretty close to the less hyped Bowmore.

(If anyone saw an earlier version of this comment, I'd written it about Bunnahabhain, another Islay whisky, and one of my favorites.)

Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @10:11PM (#17079495)
I'm just getting started with scotch. At first I tried Lagavulin, and the long iodine finish really put me off. Then I got a Highland Park Valkyrie and loved it. The other day I cautiously tried a bit of the Lagavulin again and liked it better; I'm not sure if whether it's from my tastebuds being different, three months of oxidation, or just not drinking much of it.

What would you recommend for smoky scotches that don't have much iodine? (Talisker is on my short list right now.)

Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @11:05PM (#17079727)
Laguvulin is honestly kind of middle of the pack for "iodine-ish" (like the original poster, I can relate to some skepticism with these labels) smokey whiskies. If that put you off, and you like Highland Park, I'd say that you'd probably be better off focusing on lighter, subtler whiskies.

The cheaper versions of that would be, for example, a Redbreast 12 (Irish) or a Glenmorangie 10. The only Highland Park that I have sitting around is an 18 year old, and I just compared them to that (again, the nice thing about whiskies is that you can put a few drops in a glass for comparison), and while they both have a little less to them than the 18 year old, they're also less than half the price. If you're feeling like branching over to the fruitier side, something like a Glendrodach 15 would be worth trying. It's not soo far off from the others, but tastes a bit sweeter and is a bit more complex.

If you're committed to smokey, non-iodine-y whiskies, Talisker is good, as noted. Maybe a Bowmore 12 (a little sweeter), or, if you find it, Ardmore or a Ben Riach. But again, it sounds more like your tastes go away from the smokey stuff to subtler whiskies.

---

A thing I'll note for the uninitiated here is that another nice feature of whisky is that there are literally only dozens of distilleries. There are something like 80 in Scotland. For a whisky nerd it's entirely possible to have a good 1/2 to 1/3 of them on a reasonably sized shelf. And since bottles take several years to go off, you really can have a huge percentage of the total range represented in a moderate whisky nerd's collection.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @07:30AM (#17081535)
I expected the iodine to be a subtle taste note. Then I woke up in the middle of the night with an intense iodine aftertaste that made me feel like I was in the hospital.

However, I love wood smoke, so I'm intrigued enough to keep at it. I'm trying out some non-smokey whiskies too; I had a glass of Macallan 12 that I enjoyed quite a bit.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by collyw on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @04:27AM (#17080830)
I read if you have less than half of a bottle then you should drink it within 6 months.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @11:16AM (#17083057)
You can also put marbles into them to restore the volume, but I don't bother. I've only once had a bottle that went far off (meaning too much of the alcohol evaporated out), and I'd kept it with only 2-ish shots in it for probably a year and a half. So normally after I get down to about the last quarter bottle, I try to finish them within a couple months, and that's done me well.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by dbrgn on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:22PM (#17094613)
For me, Laphroaig Quarter Cask was also the first Whisky I bought. I kept it around for a long time (maybe 2 years) because I did not want to "waste" it too quickly.

The last few glasses I drank were really disappointing compared to the initial fanstastic glasses. I can't describe the tastes, but it was simply not good anymore. When too much air gets into the bottle, the Whisky can oxidize, changing its taste (usually for the worse).

Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Thursday May 17, 2018 @01:49PM (#17093610)
From what I've seen, most people using preservation techniques aren't worried so much about alcohol loss as various other molecules getting oxidized, changing the flavor profiles they spent a lot of money for. (I don't have enough experience to say how valid that is, but it's certainly a problem for wine.)
Re:Has wine gone bad? by collyw on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @01:02PM (#17084088)
I am making a point of drinking mine within 6 months.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @07:11AM (#17081461)
True, but you can preserve it with inert gas, like people do with wine.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by croon on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @05:00AM (#17080941)
> I'm just getting started with scotch. At first I tried Lagavulin, and the long iodine finish really put me off. Then I got a Highland Park Valkyrie and loved it. The other day I cautiously tried a bit of the Lagavulin again and liked it better; I'm not sure if whether it's from my tastebuds being different, three months of oxidation, or just not drinking much of it.

I haven't attempted whisky much yet, but I believe that you trained your taste to appreciate the domain and recognize the subtleties within that domain enough to appreciate something you didn't immediately.

I say this as someone who's gotten into music genres I hated 10 years ago, forced myself to try cilantro, olives, more pickled food, and regional cuisines to a point where I appreciate all of it, and can tell well from poorly executed within those areas. I'm not sure we can force ourselves to like everything, but I'm living proof that we (sample size of one) can force ourselves to recognize quality in every domain.

I would be keen on whisky if it wasn't for the fact that I rarely drink to begin with, and the price is non-negligible.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @07:36AM (#17081565)
I definitely think that's part of it, at least.

I started trying out whisky when I realized that for the amount I drink, the price even of fairly expensive whiskies didn't add up to all that much each month.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by croon on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:02AM (#17081685)
> I started trying out whisky when I realized that for the amount I drink, the price even of fairly expensive whiskies didn't add up to all that much each month.

So you're in the same situation as me, yet arrived at the opposite conclusion, and I think you're probably right. :)

I'll reconsider my stance and will pick up a couple of bottles and dip my toe.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by stock_toaster on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @10:17PM (#17079516)
Caol Ila 12yo is very smokey, with no iodine at all really.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by jen729w on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @02:56AM (#17080483)
I’d recommend you just keep drinking Lagavulin until you enjoy it. ;-)

But seriously. My Irish mate started me on it and I really didn’t enjoy it at the start. But he kept buying it for me. And I kept drinking it. And now I love it more than words.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by DennisP on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @07:33AM (#17081548)
My plan is to keep it around and slowly creep up on it.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by PeterStuer on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @07:18AM (#17081485)
Lagavulin is very overrated. I personally find its palate unrefined, rather reminiscent of what I imagine paint thinner would taste like.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by KozmoNau7 on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:08AM (#17082049)
Depends on which one it is. 8yo is definitely rough, it's too young. 16yo is good, and even better if you can find an older bottling.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by matwood on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @08:20PM (#17079015)
The Talisker is a great medium smoke whisky. I was on their distillery tour and even they said price != taste, just rarity.

I like super smoky whiskies and unfortunately it’s hard to find anything under $50.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by nothrabannosir on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @07:28PM (#17078768)
Not op, but I am a budget peaty whiskey drinker :)

This is very controversial, but have a go at Black Label. In my opinion, it is one of the heavily undervalued whiskeys. Otherwise, I found Scotch to be expensive in the US, but I got a bottle of Monkey Shoulder for around 30 bucks which did Okay. Not very peaty, but it does the job on a budget.

If you don’t mind going a little higher, Laphroaig, Caol Ila, Lagavulin, Talisker are the usual suspects. On a budget I would say don’t worry about age too much. 10y Laphroaig is fine! Age is easily overvalued (because it markets easily with people who are afraid to admit they don’t know), as is single malt. Not saying it doesn’t matter; I just find it hard to justify the price hike, sometimes. Although for peat, single malts do tend to be better, unfortunately. :)

Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @07:51PM (#17078874)
There's really no reason to ever buy anything from Johnie Walker. If you want to drink whisky on a budget in the US, don't buy Scotch.

You'll do much better in the US with a Rittenhouse Rye, or Buffalo Trace bourbon. Hell, even a basic Jameson is better than Johnie Walker Black.

The Johnie Walker Green is a respectable whisky, but like so many high-brand respectable whiskies, it can't punch its weight with other things in its price range. (I've never tried the Blue, admittedly.) That's the same issue with e.g. the Jack Daniels range. It's not that it's bad for mixed drinks, but you can get some genuinely good stuff for cheaper -- stuff that'd so good you'll feel bad about pouring it into a cocktail.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by samplatt on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @08:20PM (#17079016)
I've tried the Blue a few times. It regrettably tastes the same as everything else from Johnny Walker - that signature JW flavour profile, but otherwise uninteresting and (extremely, given the price) rough. Very little holdover flavours or rolloffs.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by smellf on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @01:37PM (#17084485)
> Jameson is better than Johnie Walker Black

Obviously this is subjective, but I disagree so completely I can't even imagine how anyone could think this.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by matwood on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @08:22PM (#17079027)
If you want the peat smoke, scotch is about the only way to get it though.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @08:30PM (#17079071)
That's mostly, but not completely, true.

Connemara Irish whiskey is also peated. It's also a respectable whiskey, but I think you can do better for cheaper with Scotch island whiskies.

For all-out smokey power, the (Texas-made) Balcones Brimstone is a bit of a mind-fuck. It's dried with mesquite wood fire (i.e. the thing used for good bbq). It's not their best whiskey, and it's not well balanced by any means, but it is unique and very, very smokey.

Edit (after walking through the kitchen): Nikka (Japan) and Kavalan (Taiwan) also produce excellent peated whiskies, genuinely competitive with great Scottish whiskies (unlike Connemara, in my opinion), but they wouldn't be any cheaper than Scottish whiskies in the US.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by girvo on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @11:19PM (#17079788)
Nikka make some of my favourite whiskeys. Only thing I prefer more is Lark.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by matwood on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @11:14AM (#17083054)
Good to know. I'll check them out.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by YeGoblynQueenne on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @09:41PM (#17079350)
As wheels suggests, try the Talisker, but go for Dark Storm. I think it's a bit of an attempt to take over Laphroaig's market. It was recommended to me by a scottish lassie :)

How "cheap" is the cheap end? If you're fine with about 100 quid, have a look at the Bruichladich distillery. They have three whiskies; the Bruichladich is unpeated (and quite good); the Port Charlotte is sold as "heavily peated" and the Octomore as "super heavily peated". I expect the latter will probably be to your liking - yours for just £125 a bottle.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by TheAdamist on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:35AM (#17081857)
Octomore is amazingly peaty, unfortunately that price..... $200 isn't wallet friendly. On the plus side the bottle will last a while since you won't be drinking it in quantity. I haven't found anything comparable peat wise.

I didnt find port charlotte very peaty at all, but its been a while.

Agreed, Talisker Storm is interesting for the price(~$50). (is there a dark storm & storm? i've only seen storm in the usa).

Re:Has wine gone bad? by exelius on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @07:16PM (#17078729)
Anything by Ardbeg, specifically the Uigedail (sp?)

More in the $50 range, but delicious. If I still drank whiskey it’s what I’d drink.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by jdormit on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @09:05PM (#17079215)
Also, if you ever find yourself in Portland, ME the Liquid Riot single malt is excellent. They ship it to some other places in New England, but it is pretty hard to find outside of Maine.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by massaman_yams on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:58PM (#17095697)
Give Ledaig a try too. Can be found for ~$45 US.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by toomanybeersies on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @09:57PM (#17079421)
Ardbeg 10 has always been my go to cheaper Islay whisky.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by collyw on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @04:24AM (#17080806)
Caol Ida is good. No idea how much it will cost where you are.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by jdormit on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @09:02PM (#17079204)
High West Campfire is excellent.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by LoSboccacc on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:24AM (#17081798)
same here (italy) applies to wine - the range between 3€ and 7€ has flavor all over the place. you can get very very nice tasting bottles, whatever your taste might be, however, and this is especially true for wines, quality is inconsistent: same bottle can have fluctuating flavor depending on the year, so what's good one year can not meet your taste the year after.

also, at that price point, they all contain sulphites.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by sritrisna on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:23AM (#17081792)
Despite being a native German, I've lived seven years in Scotland. Probably the craziest time of my life. I'm currently enjoying the last drops of a Laphroaig PX Cask, triple matured. I also have a 1993 Edradour Cask Strength, which I've set aside for that moment I hit a million in profits with my little SaaS. May take a while though...
Re:Has wine gone bad? by walshemj on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @10:50AM (#17082839)
8 Euros a glass for a 2 star Michelin wow that wasn't my experience when I went to Number 1 in Edinburgh a few years go.
Re:Has wine gone bad? by csallen on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @10:06AM (#17082453)
Got any more whisky recommendations besides those two? And are you a fan of any Japanese whiskies?
Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @11:30AM (#17083184)
There are loads of whiskies I like, but I need more context to recommend something. Are you just starting to drink whisky? What do you like? Are you looking for budget or exotic stuff?

I've tasted some great Japanese whiskies, but I don't know the range of stuff there well at all. Nikka has a bar under their office in Tokyo, and I went when I was in town last year to try their range:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6jzabttfzjyk0ea/nikka.jpg?dl=0

I left the country with a bottle of Nikka Yoichi, which is good, but not nearly as good as some of the ones from that tasting, most of which I believe are exclusively bottled for exactly that menu item. So if the question is, "Do I like Japanese whisky?" I can roundly say, "Yes." If the question is if I can recommend any, I'd have to say, "Not really."

Re:Has wine gone bad? by csallen on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @11:58AM (#17083417)
Brand new to this! And not even sure my taste buds are discerning enough to get into it, but I'd like to try. Not sure where to start. Was guessing that a wide variety of exotic options would be great, so I don't get bored and quit early, but then again I may not be able to appreciate those yet.

Got a bottle of Suntory Yamazaki 12 Year as a gift a while back and really enjoyed it, although it was a bit sweet.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by wheels on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @01:17PM (#17084269)
If you're new at this, it'd be better to get a range of stuff that's not super expensive and compare them. In addition to the couple I mentioned above, these are some good low-end Scotches:

Laguvulin 16, Talisker 10, Glenmorangie 10, Aberlour 10

For bourbon, Buffalo Trace is a great deal (it's not an amazing whisky, but it's great for its price). 1776 Bourbon is quite good, and not very expensive. Bushmills 10 is a nice, relatively cheap, Irish single malt.

Getting out into more exotic stuff doesn't make sense until you've developed your taste for the stuff a bit more since it's expensive. If there's a whisky festival of some sort in your area, at least if they work like the one in Berlin, they're a great place to try a bunch of stuff since 2 cl costs about 1/20th of the bottle price, so you can try a jigger from a €100 bottle usually for €5, or low-end stuff for €2. It's very rare that I'd drop €100 or more on something I hadn't previously tasted, and at said festival, I'll usually try 6-8 exotic whiskies, and then buy a bottle or two.

I can't remember if I've tried the Suntory Yamazaki, but several of the Japanese (and Taiwanese) whiskies I've tried are a bit sweeter; a bit more like a good bourbon.

Re:Has wine gone bad? by 52-6F-62 on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @12:24PM (#17083655)
I could second Nikka. My girlfriend has a bottle of the Nikka Coffee Grain that she covets and I'm not to go near it unless she offers. haha

https://www.nikka.com/eng/products/grain/coffeygrain.html

(Though personally I still gravitate toward Scotch if I have a choice)

Re:Has wine gone bad? by glitchc on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @10:54AM (#17082875)
Suntory Hibiki 21 if you can get your hands on it. Hibiki Master's Select is pretty good too. The opposite of peaty/smoky, so subject to taste.