News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by superkuh on Thursday April 26, 2018 @11:10PM (#16938206)
You should feel upset and scared. Sites like 23andMe are just a small subset of genes and variations of them. The number of false positives due to this limit is significant. In whole database fishing searches by non-experts (ie, police) it will result in false positives every single time.

And also contributing is the increased sensitivity of the DNA amplification methods and lax procedures at most labs. See http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-...

>In 2013, geneticist Michael Coble of the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Gaithersburg, Maryland, set up a hypothetical scenario in which a mix of DNA from several people had been found on a ski mask left at a crime scene after a series of robberies. Coble asked 108 labs across the country to determine whether a separate DNA sample, which he posited had come from a suspect in the robberies, was also part of the mix. Seventy-three of the labs got it wrong, saying the suspect's DNA was part of the mix when, in fact, it was not.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by sedatk on Friday April 27, 2018 @12:09AM (#16938398)
It only allows finding the suspect. A full DNA test is required to be conclusive. I think it is the case here.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by z3t4 on Friday April 27, 2018 @02:47AM (#16938870)
Police, judges and lawyers probably don't know the difference between a DNA test and a DNA test. People used to go to jail because they had the same blood type as the criminal.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Friday April 27, 2018 @09:31AM (#16940619)
Right, but the issues with using geneology-resolution DNA to match a specific individual are already understood---you yourself have highlighted them.

A defendant is one expert witness away from undermining a case that relies on that low of a resolution of matching alone. In this case, that data was only used as a pointer to suggest to police that deeper scrutiny of the identified suspect was warranted.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by cat199 on Friday April 27, 2018 @10:22AM (#16940928)
> A defendant is one expert witness away from undermining a case that relies on that low of a resolution of matching alone.

and an uninformed 'jury of your peers' away from a false conviction..

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by mannykannot on Friday April 27, 2018 @09:06AM (#16940489)
If things were that bad now, the relative whose DNA first came up as a a close match would now be in custody and on her way to a conviction.

To see how things were actually done, RTFA.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by dx034 on Friday April 27, 2018 @08:28AM (#16940267)
DNA-based evidence led to a lot of wrong convictions in the early stages but methods have improved significantly. No judge would send someone to jail because a sample at 23andme matches. But they could issue a warrant to allow a further DNA test of the suspect.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by Retric on Friday April 27, 2018 @10:40AM (#16941074)
There is significant lag between false convictions and proof of innocence. So, it might seem like a huge improvement but it's far smaller difference than you might think.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by hndamien on Sunday April 29, 2018 @07:52PM (#16954629)
What is the difference between a DNA test and a DNA test?
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by lawlessone on Friday April 27, 2018 @06:05AM (#16939610)
Considering it's their job i'd say they no quite a bit.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by st26 on Friday April 27, 2018 @12:18AM (#16938426)
The Wikipedia notes the police acquired a sample of the suspect's DNA and confirmed a match to the crime samples
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by astura on Friday April 27, 2018 @08:25AM (#16940251)
Yes, and they even acquired a second sample after the first came back positive just to confirm.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Friday April 27, 2018 @09:32AM (#16940624)
If anything, I'd expect people to have more concern about the fact that the police in California are allowed to steal your stuff and grab DNA off of it than the risks from them being allowed to submit your DNA to a privately-owned database full of voluntary DNA submissions.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by astura on Friday April 27, 2018 @10:16AM (#16940884)
"steal your stuff and grab DNA off of it"

It's not stealing.

First off, if you discard something in the trash you no longer are laying a claim to it and giving it up for the trash handlers.

Secondly, it was established in California v. Greenwood that you don't have a privacy right to trash left out on the public curb for pickup; which obviously implies that you don't have a privacy right to trash placed in a public bin.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by autokad on Friday April 27, 2018 @11:22AM (#16941432)
I dont think thats a good analogy. a better one is your neighbor discarded trash, and your trash is like your neighbors.

I personally think privacy laws need to be set up right away. I think it should be illegal, even in cases of national security, to infer something from your DNA from others, such as relatives without the use of a warrant.

you should not end up in what is effectively a police line up just because your brother submitted his dna to the public domain. people should not be able to use information about his dna, in any way imaginable to infer anything about you.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Friday April 27, 2018 @11:25AM (#16941460)
Why? That seems like a broad restriction that we don't apply to other things like "Your fingerprints partially match some prints at a crime scene" or "You drive the same car as a suspect." People can and do end up in a police lineup for being the same gender and living in the same apartment complex as a perpetrator; I think that's reasonable, because a lineup isn't a conviction.

There's a world of difference between evidence submittable at a trial and evidence making someone worthy of suspicion and further investigation. I agree the bar on the former should be high; the bar on the latter being low on average leads to faster perpetrator identification and a safer community.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by autokad on Friday April 27, 2018 @11:46AM (#16941652)
our DNA is private. they should not be able to look at it without a warrant even if someone else slimier to you recklessly throws it in the public domain.

Imagine I could read your mind by reading someone else mind. are you ok with me having access to your private thoughts just because someone gave me access to their mind?

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Friday April 27, 2018 @12:56PM (#16942290)
> Imagine I could read your mind by reading someone else mind. are you ok with me having access to your private thoughts just because someone gave me access to their mind?

Even if you and I were parent and child, I don't think there's a reasonable philosophy of ownership on which you could hinge the notion that I can't donate the DNA in my cells to a cause because the pattern of half of the (physically completely independent) DNA in your body has a relationship to my own.

I do think you're touching upon possibly an interesting wrinkle in the way our current philosophy of ownership treats data about groups vs. data about an individual. Similar lines of thought underpin the question of whether your friends are culpable for sending data about themselves to Cambridge Analytica if it allows CA to extrapolate information about you.

However, I currently know of no philosophy of ownership that makes the described scenario bad apart from the general "it's a dick move if you do it on purpose to screw someone else over" (but that hinges on the general category of "Don't screw people over on purpose," not on any concept of joint ownership of data).

To pull another analogy: imagine I had dated a rapist and although I didn't have enough evidence to get him convicted of a crime, I told all my friends he was dangerous and now they won't date him. Is this bad? Quite the opposite; it's the system that is already of necessity in place to protect people from bad actors that the legal system fails to handle.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by zo1 on Friday April 27, 2018 @03:51PM (#16943760)
"our DNA is private."

How does one even come to such a conclusion?

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by aswanson on Friday April 27, 2018 @05:40PM (#16944596)
It's the essence of who you are, your uniqueness against every other living thing on the planet. I can see how psychologically compelling that idea is, even though I disagree.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Friday April 27, 2018 @06:23PM (#16944923)
That's going to be bad news for identical twins.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by aswanson on Friday April 27, 2018 @09:42PM (#16945698)
Nah. They've got unique fingerprints. Initial conditions are always unique.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Monday April 30, 2018 @02:44AM (#16956321)
What I mean is: should I be able to stop my identical twin from uploading his DNA to a genealogy site without my consent because we have identical DNA?

Legally, the answer is pretty much "no" right now, and I think it's morally also "no."

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by astura on Friday April 27, 2018 @12:35PM (#16942111)
What was the analogy? I wasn't giving any analogy, I was giving facts.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by fixermark on Friday April 27, 2018 @10:23AM (#16940933)
Excellent; thank you for the clarification.
Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by haZard_OS on Friday April 27, 2018 @10:10AM (#16940856)
I agree that the use of a public genealogy database is problematic but the way in which the police obtained the genetic material is not.

Once a person discards any material as trash in a public space, it's fair game. The police didn't begin doing this sort of thing when DNA tests were invented.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by jra_samba on Friday April 27, 2018 @12:43PM (#16942179)
Here is a useful link:

https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212170688...

I just used both methods listed to request account closure and deletion of all my data.

I suggest people do the same.

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by Shivetya on Friday April 27, 2018 @08:53AM (#16940403)
Does anyone know which professions in the US that are government related that the DNA information is preserved? I would surprised if there are not positions which require it. Surely law enforcement is keeping the records on some convicts. Do they even need a warrant to obtain it?

what I am leading up to is I can easily see where it becomes a requirement for others and it might start off with police forces because of the high visibility of abuse issues. From there it is not a big leap to other high visibility groups to include military and eventually everyone gets lumped in for medical safety and such.

It isn't that we need to be scared of what 3rd party sites do, it is that we need to be ahead of the game and limit how government can gain and maintain this information

Re:Relative's DNA from genealogy websites cracked East Area ... by reaperducer on Friday April 27, 2018 @01:13PM (#16942443)
Each state has a DNA database and there is also and FBI DNA database.

In California, the police can add you to the database (forcibly if needed) if you are arrested for a felony, or if you have a felony record and are arrested for a misdemeanor.

Note that I used the word “arrested,” not “convicted.” SCOCal has ruled that a conviction is not needed. Just an arrest.

All of this came about through two different voter referenda.