Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by Havoc on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @06:54PM
(#16917393)
Well that's annoying. How is anyone supposed to judge anything if they just make numbers up?
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Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by andrewcchen on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @07:03PM
(#16917435)
Smallest feature size no longer correlates with transistor density in recent years. So manufacturers just use the number to convey increases in transistor density.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by km3k on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @09:18AM
(#16921245)
That's why they do it. The sizes of Intel's 10nm is similar to or slightly smaller than everyone else's 7nm. Compare https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process and https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/10_nm_lithography_process .
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by elihu on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @07:09PM
(#16917468)
I think bits of SRAM per unit of area is a benchmark that some people use, as it corresponds to something that's meaningful and measurable.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by astrodust on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @12:18AM
(#16918599)
The problem is even that is flawed as things are going three dimensional.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by indiv0 on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @08:03AM
(#16920708)
So just start measuring in bits of SRAM per unit of volume?
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by kkmx on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @07:48PM
(#16917678)
That's a problematic metric as well because we don't know how much area the assist circuit takes up. Modern high-density SRAM cells cannot operate as is, they need an assist circuit to compensate for variations. For example for Intel's 10nm SRAM, they claim 77% area effiency (https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/525/iedm-2017-isscc-2018-inte...). But without those values, just bits/mm2 or so is problematic.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by btian on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @07:56PM
(#16917718)
Hopefully their customers are more sophisticated than designing their chip based on a single number.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by quickben on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @08:23PM
(#16917825)
Well, after a while or is sort of public knowledge that 10nm Intel is about the same as 12nm AMD, etc.
But yes, the industry needs standardized advertising practices badly.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by tfha on Tuesday April 24, 2018 @11:27PM
(#16918455)
Uh, it's the other way around. 10nm Intel is 7nm global foundries. 22nm Intel is superior to 14nm global foundries.
Intel is the one that doesn't fudge their numbers.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by km3k on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @09:20AM
(#16921269)
Intel still fudges their numbers. They just fudge their numbers less than everyone else.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by Valmar on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @11:06AM
(#16922154)
How so?
The numbers don't seem to have much relation at all with all of the real process node numbers.
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by Valmar on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @08:13AM
(#16920769)
Even Intel's numbers are just marketing, however.
Everyone is fudging the numbers...
SemiWiki has a good overview of Intel 10nm vs GF 7nm:
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/7191-iedm-2017-intel-...
Re:TSMC Kicks Off Volume Production of 7nm Chips
by makomk on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @09:00AM
(#16921103)
For a while I think it was the other way around: Intel's processes were, in practice, actually substantially less dense than their competitors at the same nominal process node size.