News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by mattsfrey on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:18PM (#16832537)
"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it"

I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts.

Frankly I think it's pretty obvious apple is just trying to squeeze every cent out of these phones and it's a really bad hat to wear.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by comboy on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:39PM (#16832756)
I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck.

I'd guess that's their reasoning. But I'm not on their side here. I think they should be allowed to design products to make repairs as hard as possible if they want to, but once I buy it I should be able to do whatever I want with it. Plus there's not that much great experience to protect lately..

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by eesmith on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:24PM (#16833167)
At Ford™ we care about our brand. We want people who bought a Ford™ car to have the best experience we prepared for them.

Other fuels may contain additives which make your Ford™ engine seem imperfect. A few misguided people are tempted by the siren call of the independent fuel suppliers to use something other than the Ford™ fuel specially made for your needs. When things go wrong, they spread rumors that Ford™ vehicles suck, when it was simply their misguided fault.

And that's why, as the proud owner of a Ford™ vehicle, you must go to a Ford™ gasoline station to buy Ford™ fuel. That's Ford™ fuel, available from a Ford™ station somewhere in your state.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Techowl on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:40PM (#16833274)
Wouldn't car parts be a much more accurate analogy, though? Apple isn't suing anyone for not using Apple-branded electricity to power their phone.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by alasdair_ on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:01PM (#16833437)
>Wouldn't car parts be a much more accurate analogy, though?

Yes. The FCC actually sent out reminders to phone companies two days ago reminding them that use of aftermarket parts cannot void a warranty. This also applies to things like "warranty void if seal removed" stickers etc.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/04/10/ftc-reminds-phone-m...

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by slavik81 on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:34PM (#16833683)
It doesn't change your point, but that was the FTC, not the FCC.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by LeifCarrotson on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:17PM (#16833975)
It does a little bit. The FCC has teeth when it comes to maintaining their regulations. There's little else you can do to bring suits to your door faster than to operate an unlicensed transmitter. The FTC is not so potent, as indicated by the behavior of all these cell phone manufacturers for the past decade.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by adrianN on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:55PM (#16833382)
Don't give them ideas.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by beenBoutIT on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:30PM (#16833653)
I don't understand why the geniuses at Apple haven't seen the obvious flaws in our American/European/Asian/etc wall plugs and sockets and created Apple branded proprietary wall plugs and sockets that are totally incompatible with all current American/European/Asian/etc. plugs and sockets. Apple products would all use the proprietary plugs, while 'obsolete' devices with standard plugs would require a $40-100 Apple adapter. The Apple home isn't truly going to be an Apple Home until you can't plug a non-Apple device into a wall socket without forking over money to Apple for an unnecessary adapter.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Scooty on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:04PM (#16833898)
It's easier to just change the plug on the other end of the power cables every release.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by stouset on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:43PM (#16835154)
This criticism rings extremely hollow.

The 30-pin connector lasted from the third-gen iPod (2003) through the iPhone 5 (2012), or around nine years. Lightning has remained the connector of choice since then for the past six years.

MagSafe debuted in 2006, was improved to MagSafe 2 in 2012, and is being phased out for USB-C (which is terrible, but I digress) in 2018.

One change in fifteen years for their handheld product lineup and two changes in twelve years for their laptop lineup seems pretty reasonable.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by wichert on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:54AM (#16836554)
Asian outlets are amazingly versatile: they happily take both European and US plugs. It's a real pleasure not having to bring converter plugs with you. I am still wondering why airports all over the world have not adopted them.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by danielbarla on Saturday April 14, 2018 @05:56AM (#16836673)
That sounds great. Though, how is the voltage difference handled?
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by _s on Saturday April 14, 2018 @08:59PM (#16840495)
Most power adapters for electronic devices will take any AC input from 100-240v and transform accordingly to the device (which cares more about DC), but definitely check before plugging it in. The Americas and Japan are 100-127v, and the rest of the world is 220-240v with a few discrepancies here and there. They also range from 50hz-60hz AC, so some devices that rely on the frequency for time may slow or speed up depending on what region they were made and where they are used.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by lisper on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:14PM (#16833530)
No, but they are making it very difficult for anyone to use, for example, non-Apple-branded cloud storage. And they are making it nearly impossible for anyone to use non-Apple-approved apps.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by saagarjha on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:56PM (#16833842)
> they are making it very difficult for anyone to use, for example, non-Apple-branded cloud storage

Which is why they added support for arbitrary file providers to integrate with iOS 11's Files app, and why they announced that iWork will support collaborating through Box last month?

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by hungerstrike on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:04PM (#16833897)
I still can’t use whatever SMS app that I want to. I still can’t replace Safari as the browser that opens links from apps. I can’t replace contacts or the phone dialer and I can’t open contact address links in anything but Apple Maps.

Heck, they don’t even let me organize my home screen the way that I want to.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by azag0 on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:34PM (#16834841)
At this point, you are just complaining that iOS is not open source.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by hungerstrike on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:58PM (#16835393)
Those are pretty basic functions that Apple just locks you into. iOS would not have to be open source for those things to change… At all.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by azag0 on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:16AM (#16836294)
That wasn't my point. My point was that all those requests are feature requests, as opposed to lifting some artificial restrictions. Because iOS is not open source, they would need to be coded by Apple, so it's a perfectly valid business decision on their sise not to invest in them.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by muddi900 on Monday April 16, 2018 @01:21AM (#16846812)
Macos is not open source. You can use Firefox as your default browser.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by lovich on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:15AM (#16835825)
I don't know. Those all seem like valid complaints to me. The os is separate from the applications and everything he listed has its own industry.

Microsoft was reamed over installing IE as the default browser on their OS, so how is not letting you change safari as the default on iOS any different?

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dpkonofa on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:53AM (#16836244)
Microsoft had a monopoly. Apple doesn't. If you don't like it, go buy an Android phone.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by lovich on Sunday April 15, 2018 @03:56PM (#16844584)
Coulda said the same thing with Microsoft, go buy a Mac. Monoply power isn't a binary stat, it's a sliding scale and eventually these companies get enough power to start affecting other industries
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by eesmith on Monday April 16, 2018 @05:16AM (#16847686)
A court judgment that a company has abused its monopoly power is a binary stat.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by hungerstrike on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:00AM (#16858333)
Yes, and Apple might have one of those binary stats coming their way soon. Let's hope, right?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-court/u-s-appeals-c...

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by StavrosK on Saturday April 14, 2018 @05:06AM (#16836584)
I mean, that's exactly what many of us are doing.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dpkonofa on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:29PM (#16839309)
I know. That's my point. People are complaining about decisions made by the company as if they're civil rights violations.

"I can't change the default SMS app on my phone!" This has always been the case with the iPhone since the beginning. Until Apple says that this is now a new part of the OS, pretending like that was some kind of bait and switch or deceptive business practice is completely silly.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by hungerstrike on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:58AM (#16858322)
> People are complaining about decisions made by the company as if they're civil rights violations.

No they aren't - not here at least. Scanning this thread, it looks like they're just complaining.

> pretending like that was some kind of bait and switch or deceptive business practice is completely silly.

Who did that? Can you point out a specific comment? I certainly didn't and I don't see any other comments that did. I simply pointed out how Apple makes their product difficult to use by being so stingy with the level of access that they allow me to have.

Anyway, there is an anti-trust lawsuit against Apple right now. Since their iPhone does have somewhere around 50% marketshare in the USA I think there's a chance for it to succeed and I hope it does.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dpkonofa on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @11:58AM (#16868389)
>Anyway, there is an anti-trust lawsuit against Apple right now.

And what are the damages claimed against them? Even if they have 50% marketshare, they still have competition with a larger marketshare both domestic and worldwide. There's nothing that can be brought against them because they're not doing anything illegal or immoral.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by hungerstrike on Saturday April 21, 2018 @10:54AM (#16891629)
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by acomjean on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:36PM (#16833699)
Heck even apple approved charging cables sometimes give me the "this accessory might not work correctly on this device". Gives me pause, but it goes away once I retry...
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by beenBoutIT on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:34PM (#16833682)
Isn't it nearly impossible to so much as download a file from the Internet on an Apple device, or have they changed that?
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by saagarjha on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:11PM (#16833942)
No, you can totally do this even on iOS.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by scottmf on Saturday April 14, 2018 @07:11AM (#16836839)
Ah but isn’t it true that iPhones have no right click?
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by saagarjha on Saturday April 14, 2018 @08:34PM (#16840411)
Uh, yes. Why is this relevant, though?
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Taniwha on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:28PM (#16834822)
I was actually thinking that plain old bolts, also available at the hardware store, imagine if Ford could ban all 8mm bolt import and sales just because they had one in one of their cars
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by perl4ever on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:18PM (#16833981)
Well, automakers don't literally do that, but they might suggest you use the specific oil, coolant, or brake fluid that the dealer has. Sometimes much cheaper products are perfectly good and sometimes not. I have an old car that requires a particular type of automatic transmission fluid for the power steering system. People who don't research it and use generic "power steering fluid" say it can lead to leaking seals. The wrong type of radiator coolant is said to lead to all sorts of problems too.

The fact that there is a conflict of interest and the manufacturer will charge more doesn't mean that there aren't real issues.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by SteveGerencser on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:10PM (#16835240)
This is literally that with many tractor brands. Mahindra will void your warranty if you don't use THEIR oil in a new tractor.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by greedo on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:34PM (#16834077)
And I as the owner of said car am within my rights to use/do whatever I want to maintain it. I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to fix anything, I screwed up, but if I want to pour sand into the gas tank, I can.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by perl4ever on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:46PM (#16834163)
The real world problem is that it can be difficult or well-nigh impossible to trace back the causes of mechanical problems. If we had a foolproof way to do that, it would transform the used car business, as well as warranty claims and other stuff.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by solarkraft on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:46PM (#16833313)
> available from a Ford™ station somewhere in your state

... and at 3x the usual price.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by jehlakj on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:29PM (#16833640)
Any reason why you used the ford brand as an example? I don’t like or hate them - just curious why them over others, if there’s any reason at all.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by eesmith on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:29PM (#16838031)
No deep reason. Once upon a time Ford dominated the car industry, and Henry Ford cared deeply about the engineering of Ford cars ("the brand"). I also wanted an industry where people spent a lot of money on an end-user product, such that they would not want to do something which might break a warranty.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by ilyanep on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:41PM (#16833277)
It's really more like getting a Ford vs third-party part for your car, which yes, every car manufacturer will recommend. It's not like Apple is trying to sell you Apple electricity.

Regardless, this is a pretty low-effort attempt to make a point.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by solarkraft on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:49PM (#16833337)
Car manufacturers may recommend against custom parts, but they probably don't (yet) detect you're using one and work to make your experience worse.

Safety is one thing. Working against your customer another.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by perl4ever on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:21PM (#16833998)
My Dell laptop constantly used to tell me I was using a non-Dell battery (falsely). So I think there are probably quite a few instances of electronics having ways of detecting aftermarket parts, and there might well be automotive examples. I suspect printers that detect authentic ink cartridges exist. Wouldn't bet that it hasn't been done in the automotive realm.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by kolpa on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:27PM (#16833626)
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by brians on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:53PM (#16833364)
Yup. Relatedly, devices on a CAN bus don't authenticate each other, and we're seeing real security & safety problems as a result. Ford—or Tesla and Volvo—will start locking those down this decade, or start seeing more incidents.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by throwaway2048 on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:58PM (#16833416)
Third party parts in car are protected by law.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by amelius on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:29PM (#16835101)
If only Apple™ users were limited to a special Apple™ version of the internet! :)
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by beenBoutIT on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:43PM (#16835333)
That's actually not a bad idea at all. A sanitized, curated version of the Internet would be a great idea for kids, elderly, the developmentally challenged, etc. Something like the web-equivalent of what Disney World is to the Real World.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by kalleboo on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:07AM (#16835805)
AOL?
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by geezerjay on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:49PM (#16832856)
> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

It's quite obvious that, to put it mildly, that's wishful thinking inspired by a heavily rose-tainted view of Apple.

Meanwhile, Apple is known for their extreme price gouging complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products, let alone upgrade them to a usable state.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by snowwrestler on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:21PM (#16833139)
> complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products

Like what kind of actions? I can go to ifixit.com right now, order parts for my iPhone, order tools to work on my iPhone, and watch detailed instructions about how to repair my iPhone. (or Mac, or iPad, etc.)

The products are NOT easy to work on, but I am not aware of any action that Apple has taken against individual customers who want to repair their own products.

> let alone upgrade them to a usable state.

Personally speaking, I'm still using a 2008 Macbook Pro today because I was able to order and install more RAM (even above the recommended limit), a new SSD, and a new cooling fan.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by eesmith on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:40PM (#16833267)
Actions like fighting right-to-repair bills in many states.

While you may have the right to do that yourself, they don't want you to have the right to hire someone else to do it for you.

They also don't want you to have the right to get those parts for your iPhone.

Apple goes after producers and technicians, and not so much end-users. For one, I think end-users have rights, like the first-sale doctrine, which makes it harder for Apple to do anything to you other than terminate your warranty coverage.

Though I think they really would have preferred if they could sue you for jailbreaking an iPhone - they lost that court case.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by snowwrestler on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:51PM (#16833352)
I agree with all that. I wonder though... how is it that I can buy parts from IFixIt? I'm honestly asking--I read the linked story about Norway and I don't see how what iFixIt does is different... except that they don't do the repairs themselves. But it was the parts shipment that Apple objected to.

I think the legality of jailbreaking was actually decided by the Library of Congress DMCA exception process.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by eesmith on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:21PM (#16833586)
You are right, it was not a court case but a LoC exemption. Thanks for correcting my error!

iFixit was part of that effort. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8q89wb/how-to-fix... describes more about the company's history. I found it interesting.

https://es.ifixit.com/Answers/View/121003/The+replacement+ba... says (concerning a battery)

> The iPhone 4 Battery we sell is made to the same specifications as an Apple OEM part, but cannot be classified as 'OEM' because they are not made by Apple. Apple doesn't like to sell their OEM parts to anyone, so they are extremely hard to find. Our parts are brand new, fully tested, and made to the same quality as Apple OEM parts. They also come with a 6-month warranty."

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by wuliwong on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:13PM (#16833954)
I'm just hearing about this "right to repair" thing. It sounds from this article that the "right to repair" also includes forcing Apple to sell their parts to be used by anyone for repair. If that is the case, I think it is going to far. I don't think Apple should be forced to sell their parts to anyone. But I do believe that anyone should be able to repair any item they own or pay anyone else to do it.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by eesmith on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:23AM (#16836178)
When you buy something, you do have pretty broad rights to repair it.

The problem is, they are becoming less and less effective.

If you have no documentation or repair manuals, then it's harder to fix. An authorized repair site might know what error code 59276 means, but do you?

Apple famously started using a pentalobe screw, seemingly for the goal of making it harder for people who aren't at authorized service centers to carry out repairs. If a company uses non-standard parts when standard parts would work, this makes it harder for you to repair your own items.

In the pentalobe case, third-party vendors sprang up to sell the specialized screwdrivers, so it became less of a barrier. But imagine if the new screw were covered under patent that prevented substitutions .. and only authorized repair centers could buy the correct screwdriver.

Companies are using their rights under other laws to make it harder for you do to your own repairs. For example, farmers are turning to foreign hackers because farm equipment companies use the DMCA to prevent farmers from using anything other than authorized repair technicians from fixing the equipment. This equipment is increasingly reliant on DMCA-protectable software.

As you saw in this case in Norway, Apple wants to use its trademark power to prevent people from buying parts which would otherwise be legal

Are there any requirements would you force upon Apple in order to ensure that people have a reasonable ability "to repair any item they own or pay anyone else to do it?"

Make not mistake - it's also well-established law that the government can force companies to sell to people they might not otherwise want to sell to.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by atonse on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:26PM (#16833180)
You can't do that with a 2015 MacBook. Everything is soldered on.

Are the iFixit parts genuine? I have no idea.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by beenBoutIT on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:26PM (#16834033)
This is actually much better than their previous designs which had 'replaceable parts' that by design would generally destroy the motherboard when replaced by technically-inclined users or non-Apple repair people. Now there isn't an illusion of repairability bundled with a false sense of defeat upon encountering failure.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by oarsinsync on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:17PM (#16834370)
I'm not sure it's better that GP wouldn't have been able to do what he did successfully, because other people might have failed thinking they could succeed.

Just because some people might fail at certain tasks thinking they could perform aftermarket changes (so long my Palm IIIx and iPhone 3G) doesn't mean all people will fail at these things (wayhey hello new screen on my Thinkpad and significantly improved wifi on my XPS).

Meanwhile my MacBook Air now gathers dust and I was forced to fork out significantly more money for a MacBook Pro just to double the RAM from 4GB to 8GB. There's only one winner there (well, arguably two, as I still got a new laptop out of it...)

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by beenBoutIT on Friday April 13, 2018 @10:24PM (#16835523)
It's tragic to see RAM moving in the opposite direction of other positive technologies like USB. Going from being difficult to reuse between devices to fixed and impossible to reuse, making entire devices disposable.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Scoundreller on Friday April 13, 2018 @10:29PM (#16835547)
Just part out your MacBook Air. I just parted out a mid-2011 and got about US$600 for it, excluding the useless battery and frayed power cord.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by geezerjay on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:51AM (#16836374)
Being forced to sell a product in perfectly good computer just because the manufacturer goes to extreme lengths to stop you from even performing the most trivial upgrade ever is not a solution. In fact, that caters to a single party's interests, which is the manufacturer itself. You're being forced by the manufacturer to waste a bigger chunk of your hard-earned money by giving it away to him.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by geezerjay on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:57AM (#16836392)
> Like what kind of actions?

Well.... You can start by reading the news piece that's the source of this discussion. You know, the article on how Apple went to extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products or even upgrade them to a usable state.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dijit on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:17PM (#16833106)
Apples 'price gouging' is just smart business. How do you get people in the low end to buy your product. But get the best margin on the high end?

The base model of their products are perfectly servicable and price competitive for the quality. They just know what the wealthier consumers are willing to shell out for.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by geezerjay on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:54AM (#16836382)
> Apples 'price gouging' is just smart business.

Hooray Apple and its stockholders, but the consumer keeps on getting thoroughly screwed over and over again.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dijit on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:15AM (#16836449)
"dont hate the player, hate the game"

Capitalistic tendencies in capitalist companies is not shocking.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dingaling on Saturday April 14, 2018 @06:04AM (#16836691)
It's perfectly reasonable to hate the player for playing the game.

Otherwise that's merely another form of 'just following orders'.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by jandrese on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:20PM (#16833125)
Apple basically doesn't compete on the low end for phones. The space is overwhelmingly dominated by Android devices. This also happens to be the largest segment by volume, which is a big factor in how Android devices sell in much greater numbers than iPhones.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by blackflame7000 on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:43PM (#16833294)
The margins are much better on a $1000 dollar phone than a $200 one
[dead]
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Qub3d on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:21PM (#16833144)
The "greater than" or right bracket is used as a standard inline quote symbol and has been since before image boorus or chans existed.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by greenyoda on Friday April 13, 2018 @11:03PM (#16835653)
Yeah, I was seeing them used in text-based email and Usenet clients in the 1980s, and they're probably even older than that.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by conradev on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:40PM (#16833271)
This has happened multiple times:

1. Users swap parts in a way Apple didn't account for in software

2. Something goes wrong, users blame Apple for intentionally breaking third party repairs

3. Apple deals with it

Touch ID mismatch: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/19/error-53-...

Third party screens: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208067#1103

Third party screens, again: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/10/iphone-8-...

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Y_Y on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:30PM (#16833651)
Of course the screens are non-genuine

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/23.24

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by conradev on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:41PM (#16833732)
Updated
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by inops on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:55PM (#16832904)
Possibly, but there's an obvious planned obsolescence angle here for Apple too. Perhaps people wouldn't so readily buy new iPhones if they could replace their old phone's battery, screen, buttons, etc for a more reasonable price from a "non-authorised" repairer. Perhaps they wouldn't get a new one like clockwork every 1-3 years.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by colejohnson66 on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:21PM (#16834773)
If any manufacturer of phones has planned obsolescence built in, it’s Android manufacturers. iOS devices receive updates for over 3 years, while you’re lucky to get updates to your Android phone after a year.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by josteink on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:47AM (#16836225)
While the android update-situation is a real issue, not having the latest version of android installed on your phone does not make it obsolete.

There’s almost no software that actually depends on you having the latest version.

Bad battery life or flash storage used to beyond it’s reasonable lifetime is a much bigger problem, a problem that can be solved by replacement parts, or even better: user replaceable batteries or SD-cards.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by DanBC on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:08PM (#16833025)
Or perhaps a robust second hand market for refurbished phones allows more people to afford to stay on the upgrade treadmill, increasing Apple's sales and bringing more people into the app-store system.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by scottmf on Saturday April 14, 2018 @07:14AM (#16836850)
Battery replacements are $29 at Apple stores
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Karunamon on Saturday April 14, 2018 @10:22AM (#16837415)
This year only.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by rasz on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:24PM (#16833173)
HAHAHA NO.

The first thing you are being told when becoming Apple Authorized Service provider is UP-SELL. Your main function and profit source is telling people "cant be repaired/repair will cost as much as new one, would you like this new model?"

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by FireBeyond on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:39PM (#16833262)
> The first thing you are being told when becoming Apple Authorized Service provider is UP-SELL. Your main function and profit source is telling people "cant be repaired/repair will cost as much as new one, would you like this new model?"

I had water damage to a 2013 MBP, minor but nonetheless.

It passed all diagnostics. Ran fine on AC power. Battery diagnostics were fine too. But it wouldn't charge. "Charge circuit error".

No problem, I think. That's where the water damage was, no doubt. So I take it to Apple (in 2014, probably 18 months after purchase). I set my expectations, hmm, maybe $200-300? Let's go with $300, after labor, etc.

Haha.

"Sir, the charge circuitry is damaged and we need to replace that. You're looking at $899. Perhaps we should talk about you buying a new MacBook? Have you seen the latest?"

So, there's labor, etc. But you're going to tell me that to repair something, that by your own diagnostics, is fine except for this one part costs 70% of the new purchase price? I paid $1300, if I recall for the MBP. Take away something for labor, etc, and apparently the charging circuit is worth more than the CPU, the memory, the SSD, the screen?

No, now it serves as a driver for my step daughter's Garage Brand / Logic Pro setup with MIDI drums, keyboard, etc., remains on AC and has worked fine for several more years.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by blattimwind on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:50PM (#16833348)
> So, there's labor, etc. But you're going to tell me that to repair something, that by your own diagnostics, is fine except for this one part costs 70% of the new purchase price?

That's what a highly integrated machine gets you. Charge circuit defective => replace entire main board, including CPU, probably memory and storage too nowadays.

No one is doing component-level repairs any more.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by mitchty on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:57PM (#16833847)
> No one is doing component-level repairs any more.

Not entirely accurate, its just a highly skilled bit of work that you have to work to find people that can do it. This guy does it: https://www.rossmanngroup.com

Watch his youtube channel here and you can learn how to do it yourself: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w

That said, in general you're right. Component level repair on multi layer pcb's with BGA or reflow soldering is... not all that economical in the amount of labor and skill and equipment involved.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by coolio2657 on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:08PM (#16833928)
That's a valid counterpoint and one I'd be open to discussing. However, my own experiences support the owner you're replying to.

I also possess a 2013 MBP with a Retina screen, proudly running well all these years later after many AAA games, overclocking, and innumerable HD repartionings. However, I broke my MBP's screen twice, and both times I called the closest Apple repair shop, and once the main "independent" repair ship in my city, and all three times the price came back as a nice, round $1000: nearly half of the original price!

So I looked around online (always had been vaguely aware of Right-to-Repair, and ifixit.org). After reading the excellent repair guide online and ordering what seemed a high-quality screen online, the repairs, which cost me no major headache or extreme difficulty, materially ended up costing around $300. Also, I want to mention that the aforementioned ifixit guide listed the highest difficulty grade to this type of repair.

So you are telling me, someone that had never engaged in computer or mechanical repairs before in his life, performed $700 of labor in just under an hour? No, the likelier answer is that Apple is simply rent-seeking in the sector of product repairs.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by 15155 on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:48PM (#16833784)
> No one is doing component-level repairs any more.

There is a vendor on eBay who does this, cannot recall his name.

But they will definitely desolder and replace any component wherever this is possible.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by martyvis on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:01PM (#16834664)
If you go to any of the electronics mega-malls in Asian cities like KL or Singapore the top floor is full of little shops of guys armed with soldering irons and loupes that will repair anything for a hundred dollars or two.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by vinceguidry on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:53PM (#16833813)
Sure they do, you just have to go out of your way to find someone.

I've sent my laptop to this guy in NYC, and had a pleasant experience, even if he couldn't find my problem. (intermittent shutdowns)

https://www.rossmanngroup.com/

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by beenBoutIT on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:51PM (#16833799)
If you look at The current situation with ThinkPads it's obvious why no OEM would want to end up where Lenovo is now. ThinkPads built a decade ago are so durable and well-built with readily available replacement parts that they will most likely never go away entirely. CPUs haven't improved enough to make them a compelling argument for upgrading, and the end result is that modern day Lenovo is stuck competing with its own product.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by nothrabannosir on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:14PM (#16833957)
Those Thinkpads were built by IBM. Lenovo took a stallion of a brand and drove it face down into the ground.

I tried to stay with Lenovo, but after the endless waves of shitware, spyware and low quality hardware (!) I had to give up. Thinkpad’s great name is thanks to IBM, and perhaps, maybe, a bit of early Lenovo. Maybe.

If Lenovo is competing with anything, it’s with IBM.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by blattimwind on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:52PM (#16834202)
> Those Thinkpads were built by IBM. Lenovo took a stallion of a brand and drove it face down into the ground.

I don't think this is particularly true, 2009-2012 era hardware designed/built by Lenovo/Quanta is also around in plentiful numbers.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by StudentStuff on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:27PM (#16834432)
The Thinkpad T440 and newer are easier to work on than the T400 thru T430. You can do a heck of a lot more while removing fewer screws. than in older Thinkpads.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by ahartmetz on Saturday April 14, 2018 @06:05AM (#16836695)
The expensive / business models (T, X) are still proper Thinkpads and extremely durable. Only the cheaper models suck in various ways.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by znpy on Saturday April 14, 2018 @06:05AM (#16836696)
As a consumer, I gladly pay a premium (in respect to regular laptop prices) and buy ThinkPads because of their reliability and ease of upgrade/repair.

This way I can upgrade to a new model when I feel it's time to.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by blattimwind on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:18PM (#16837970)
I would like to take this moment to thank the numerous repliers to my comment for proving my point.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by boznz on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:07PM (#16833922)
Same

My daughters new macbook pro dropped in to some very wet grass and the authorised repair shop wanted $1400 (in New Zealand) for a new motherboard to repair the water damage, the insurance company said to get a new one which we did.

The shop made it difficult to to get the old one back as it was being replaced with a new one and they said the deal price for the new one included a discount for the old which by pointing out on the apple web site it obviously did not.

Once it was returned about 5 weeks after going in I switched it on and nothing, five minutes of googling found a blown fuse and its been fine ever since, that was 2015 and I have since fixed two others with similar easy to fix problems.

It saddens me because the hardware is well designed in these computers and as an electronics engineer I hate to think how many good computers go to landfill for the sake of a $5 repair.

A Lot of my favourite companies are in on the act not just Apple (And Tesla Most Annoyingly) and it proves to me that the engineers in these firms have lost the high ground and now have a large controlling input from their legal departments. Personally I would keep quiet and take the money too but wouldn't be a happy engineer.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by perl4ever on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:35PM (#16834087)
My car had a service done previously for about $800, maybe half labor. I got a quote recently from the dealer for about $3K for what I think was the same thing. However, the problem is, I don't trust the independent mechanic to do it right. So for now, I rationalized not doing it at all, much like your approach to your MBP.

I think the thing is, even on a site where people brag about making $300K a year, everybody has way unrealistic ideas of what skilled labor costs. In my world, $55K is a good living for a programmer analyst, but that exact person gets billed out at over $120 an hour. An independent car mechanic might be $100/hr where I am; a dealer rate might be $160-$170. In the context of other types of skilled labor, that seems reasonable to me. Surely an auto technician and an electronics repair person are roughly comparable in skill, so should be in the same ballpark of costs.

But first world labor costs mean fixing things is frequently infeasible compared to replacing them. This is practically a cliche, but it seems like people will not or cannot come to terms with it.

Oh yes, one other thing I wanted to fix on my car was to replace the busted antenna. I bought one online for about $90. However, I was quoted something like $600 to install it. Well, I replaced the antenna on my car once, and I know it's a hassle when you try to thread it through and then it sticks or breaks, but the estimate was stunning.

All in all, I don't think Apple is as malicious as they seem - the problem is that expectations are set by robotic factories and third world labor costs.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by StudentStuff on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:34PM (#16834474)
You trust the stealership? I'd rather take my car to the worst independent mechanic than the average stealership here in Seattle, as all I've ever seen is botch jobs at the stealerships I've been to in the area. Botched seal replacement jobs (resulted in a wrecked engine), transmission fluid flushes needlessly (early failure of the transmission) along with a bevy of smaller botches have lead me to believe that the least trained are working at the stealership's around here. Its all about parting the customer from their money it seems!

A good mechanic will do a better job and usually be cheaper than what your local stealership will try and charge you for. Replacing a battery clamp will run you $60 at most Honda stealerships, versus a $5 part cost or $20 at the shop down the road.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by perl4ever on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:01PM (#16834960)
If I had an out of warranty Honda, I would probably stick to an independent mechanic. I have an in-warranty Honda though. My dealer is so-so. By which I mean, they have fixed the (significant) problems that came up, and not destroyed the engine/car in the process, although there were some glitches. They don't overcharge for oil changes, nor did they weasel out of the warranty when I needed it.

On the other hand, I also have a 30 year old German sports car and limited ability to work on it myself (not having a house/garage) and I felt an independent European car specialist was taking advantage of me, so I tried a dealer of the marque. Keeping in mind they only want to replace things and charge incredible rates, it still seems like the best option for some repairs, to get it done right. When I had a fuel leak, I was happy to have the dealer replace the fuel pump and filter. Maybe somebody intrepid who charges half as much per hour could have just disassembled it and changed some seals, but how much labor is that and do I trust it not to result in setting my car on fire? I certainly wouldn't trust myself to do it.

Sometimes you want OEM parts and sometimes it doesn't matter so much. I'm going to continue to choose what to do on a case-by-case basis.

If you have an unusual old car, a lot of independent mechanics may be horrified at the prospect of working on it, plus the factory manual is out of print plus there's a very limited number of specialist mechanics. So, I'm not saying the cliched advice about avoiding the dealer and going to a good mechanic is completely unfounded, but it's of limited use if you haven't found a good independent. The good mechanics only survive because they're cheap and attract cheap customers, and don't specialize too much, so I say to myself - how can I expect them to be better than the dealer? If I was an employee and I was any good, why wouldn't I work at the dealer? Lots of dealers are terrible, but I infer that independents operate under really harsh constraints. The fact that their labor rates are so much less makes me paranoid both they are padding their hours and that they can't retain good mechanics.

As far as a battery clamp, I can order anything I need mail order, and I can compare mail order prices to the dealership and see if the markup is less than shipping costs. I can choose an OEM part or not. This really is just a separate choice, not a factor in deciding to go to the dealer. My Honda dealer will charge you a ridiculous price to put in a new cabin air filter, which costs almost nothing and is trivial to replace. But that doesn't mean I don't trust them to work on my car at all. Just that I'm careful to double check whether any given thing is reasonable.

But also, a major metro area may be different. I live in a three-city area that has about a million people combined, so it isn't in the middle of nowhere, but it's not like Seattle.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by jacquesm on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:35PM (#16834082)
Interesting that after such an experience you'd still get your step daughter hooked into that same eco system after buying yet another MBP. It looks as if Apple got exactly what it wanted.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by StavrosK on Saturday April 14, 2018 @05:08AM (#16836586)
Yeah, I was just about to say. "They told me to buy another MacBook, but joke's on them! I did!"

Presumably, anyway.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by PurpleBoxDragon on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:15PM (#16833087)
The $300+ I had to pay to repair a phone because of a problem in their design leaves me extremely doubtful of this. I think it is all about money to them, and when they think they can win more money than it costs them in image, they will go after cases like this.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by saagarjha on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:00PM (#16833868)
> The $300+ I had to pay to repair a phone because of a problem in their design leaves me extremely doubtful of this.

What problem in their design are you referring to?

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by StudentStuff on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:37PM (#16834501)
Likely touch disease or similar, Apple has had more than a few issues with bad solder joints in their products causing an untimely failure. The customer consistently gets blamed for these types of defects until it becomes a media issue for Apple.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by IBM on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:19PM (#16833115)
Well you have the right to do what you want with it. That's the thing about "Right To Repair", you already have the right to do it now. It's not illegal to open up your iPhone and replace a broken screen, Apple just doesn't support it by selling you genuine parts.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by alasdair_ on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:06PM (#16833478)
>That's the thing about "Right To Repair", you already have the right to do it now.

Except that a lot of the times, you don't. The issue arises when the manufacturer adds some encryption to validate that a part is genuine (e.g. printer manufacturers using code signing to validate a printer cartridge is theirs) then suing people under the DMCA when they have to reverse-engineer the encryption just to repair their item.

Take the John Deere case for example (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska...) - farmers bought tractors. The tractors needed to be repaired. To do this, the farmers needed to either break John Deere's copy protection mechanisms or use John Deere's own expensive repair services. Deere sued the farmers for trying to repair their own tractors.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by cavanasm on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:22PM (#16833152)
And they'll sue you if you try to buy genuine parts that they rejected in QA that are not being advertised as genuine.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by chris_wot on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:10PM (#16833042)
If they cared about their brand, they would have considered what to do when you need to repair their product. If a good is faulty and get repaired, then it's not Apple who looks bad if the repair is bad.

No, it's very clear they make their money by pushing new product.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by enlightenedfool on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:23PM (#16834011)
"They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them". If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it...
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Yetanfou on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:29PM (#16835097)
> I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

Ford motorcars just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to run them on officially licensed Ford fuel.

Philips lighting just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to use Philips batteries.

Keurig just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to use officially licensed coffee cups.

Miele just cares about the brand, that is why you're only allowed to use Miele dishwasher detergents.

...

What a horrible world that would be, don't you agree? Sometimes regulation of business really is for the benefit of all, as Apple so vividly reminds us of time and time again. Designing their products to be basically irreparable should be allowed but it would be good if they were made to fess up to this before people forked over their earnings to buy one of those discard-a-phones. In Europe manufacturers of white goods have to put an energy label on their products to give prospective customers some idea of how much energy the device uses in comparison to other current devices in a scale from A to D (up to 2010: A-G [1]). This concept could be adapted to device maintenance as well, covering both repair as well as replacement of consumables. Apple products would score 'D' on availability of spare parts and 'D' on third-party service access. Such a scheme might help in convincing manufacturers that serviceability can be a selling point if done right.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by vbezhenar on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:06AM (#16835803)
That's true. My friend bought "new" iPhone for half of price. It broke after few monthes of use. He know thinks that iPhone is just overpriced bad phone. Unfortunately it's a very big market here to sell phones which are built from old parts in China but very unreliable. People want iPhone but can't afford its price.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by yitchelle on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:02PM (#16832982)
> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

Adding further to this, Apple also wants 100% control over that experience and how that experience is deployed, including how and what can be repaired.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by FireBeyond on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:40PM (#16833269)
> Apple also wants 100% control over that experience and how that experience is deployed, including how and what can be repaired.

They can want it all they like, they just have no implicit right to it.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by potta_coffee on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:19PM (#16833563)
They altruistically try to shut down a business that provides a legitimate service to customers who want that service, out of the goodness of their hearts?
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by RivieraKid on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:58PM (#16833854)
The "clean" solution would be a legal requirement that people buying used iPhones should have the knowledge that it contains unoriginal parts.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by squarefoot on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:20PM (#16833128)
"I think they should be allowed to design products to make repairs as hard as possible if they want to"

Not the 1st time they did that apparently. https://web.archive.org/web/20170103102649/blog.irepairnatio...

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by HammerJack on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:47PM (#16833320)
Considering Apple intentionally slows older phones with firmware updates post new phone release, I think your argument that they're trying to protect the experience doesn't hold much weight.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by larkost on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:19PM (#16833993)
Please provide documentation for this. The only one I know if where they detected degrading batteries that would cause sudden shutdowns, and (without telling people) throttled the CPU to prevent the sudden spike of power draw that was causing the shutdowns. Certainly not a perfect reaction, but very far from your assertion.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by saagarjha on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:59PM (#16833865)
> Considering Apple intentionally slows older phones with firmware updates post new phone release

Source, please?

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by josteink on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:54AM (#16836246)
Here you go: https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28/16827248/apple-iphone-ba...

I’m sure they do it all the time, but this one incident actually caused worldwide news-coverage, even in tabloids read by normal people (that is, not just techies).

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by scottmf on Saturday April 14, 2018 @07:22AM (#16836874)
That isn’t “intentionally slowing phones with new firmware releases”.

That’s the phone slowing the CPU when the battery gets old to prevent unexpected shutdowns. If you think this is “planned obselence” you misunderstand the issue.

iOS 11.3 now lets you disable this, so you can have full performance at the cost of unexpected shutdowns. Or you can just get an official battery replacement for $29 and your phone will be like new.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by coolio2657 on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:38PM (#16834512)
If you pay attention to software and tech news, at all, you'd know this, or at least try to google it.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by vetinari on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:34PM (#16834480)
It's also my experience, upgrading iPhone 3G from iOS 3 to iOS 4. That thing was unusable afterwards.

I'm sure there are examples with newer devices and iOS versions, but I wouldn't tell, because I didn't get any other afterwards.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by vkou on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:00PM (#16832966)
> They want people who bought iPhone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

Since when is buying a deliberately un-maintainable device 'the best experience'?

I would call that anti-user.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by jandrese on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:21PM (#16833145)
That problem only comes up when you need to repair the phone. The out of box experience is more important to Apple.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by comboy on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:16PM (#16833098)
It's the choice some people make. I think user experience is very subjective. I love the user experience that Gentoo provides me, but others will feel better with Windows 10. I didn't mean to say that it's objectively the best experience.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by vkou on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:22PM (#16833150)
As a user, there is zero benefit to me when an Apple software update bricks my device because I replaced its screen at a third-party shop.

This is not subjective, this is not an argument over whether or not their laptops should have a replaceable battery. This is a blatant cash grab by them, at my expense. I gain nothing from this decision.

This practice may also be illegal in Europe.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by kevin_b_er on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:57PM (#16832931)
Because corporations are trying to erode the concept of ownership itself for the common human. Copyright and trademark are the vehicles they're use to attempt to deny you the fundamental notion of ownership. The corporations are getting quite close to it in the US.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by jerrac on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:59PM (#16834250)
Nice to see someone else shares that view. Though, it's not just the corporations. Our Government is in on the action as well. I'd love to see that eminent domain Supreme Court ruling overturned...
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by intopieces on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:54PM (#16832893)
>How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts?

I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Apple's case. First, it seems like they are suing for trademark infringement, not for copyright infringement. Second, the repair shop owner is by no stretch of the imagination the end user of this product. Wikipedia gives this definition of end user:

"In product development, an end user (sometimes end-user)[a] is a person who ultimately uses or is intended to ultimately use a product.[1][2][3] The end user stands in contrast to users who support or maintain the product,[4] such as sysops, system administrators, database administrators,[5] information technology experts, software professionals and computer technicians."

As for "no way markets them as OEM parts," this is not a very consumer-focussed answer. I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians."

Otherwise, from Apple's perspective, this repair shop owner is just taking advantage of Apple's reputation for quality and using it to make cut-rate repairs.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by mattsfrey on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:38PM (#16833258)
First two points - semantics.

The point is that once the physical product was sold, consumers have the right to do whatever the hell they like with it, including sell it.

As to your latter statements, opinions will vary on this, but I believe it is well known that this guy's shop is not official / authorized by apple. People coming to this guy's shop are doing so to specifically avoid the drastically higher costs of seeking an authorized repair / replacement from apple. It'd be much easier to just mail it to apple, so I think there is an implied cognizance in seeking his services as an alternative. So I personally think as long as he is honest about not being an official apple repair shop, doesn't brandish their logos or in any way affirmatively hijack their brand, he should be safe from penalty of law.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by alasdair_ on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:09PM (#16833497)
> I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians."

Okay. So my mechanic needs to state that for every single manufacturer of every single component that he may potentially use to fix my car, right down to the level of individual capacitors on individual circuitboards, he is not an authorized technician for that item? That seems unduly onerous.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by lloeki on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:57PM (#16833849)
I certainly expect my mechanic to tell me he’s going to install non stock/genuine parts beforehand if some happen to need replacement. "Hey, your brake discs/tranny/whatevs is dead, let me swap that for some (possibly non spec-compliant) third-party part! You'll save xx bucks! (and hopefully it won't break down in YY000km at the most critical moment, nor fuck up the whole thing because they're not properly balanced or whatever! but shhhh I'd rather not tell you that)"
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by mattsfrey on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:33PM (#16834466)
I can't think of a single time a mechanic or shop has given any details about the manufacturer of a part, just "do you want the expensive shit or the cheap shit". Of course in the auto parts world virtually everything is aftermarket not OEM and there isn't a monopolistic manufacturer trying to enforce their bullshit on repair shops.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by dpkonofa on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:51AM (#16836238)
>The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts.

Except that the archive.org page for his site clearly shows that his site was marketing the replacements as genuine Apple parts and that it was changed after the court case began.

Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by Clubber on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:27PM (#16832623)
Yes, this certainly isn't good optics. I would think Apple would be smarter than have something like this in the paper.
Re:Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost by zouhair on Saturday April 14, 2018 @10:52AM (#16837537)
I think they are just testing the waters in a small suit to see which strategy will work better for them to enforce rendering fixing their products illegal.

Apple now is a full on evil corporation.