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Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by tonyedgecombe on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @04:42AM (#16809171)
As a consumer I really dislike subscription services, they quickly add up to a lot of money. I can see how it works for businesses but by definition that means its not so good for me.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by cecja on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:02AM (#16809565)
To be honest the main problem for me is I gladly pay 10$ for Spotify or Netflix but I just can't bring myself to pay 8$ for a todo app or 10$ for Dropbox when my hosting with 500GB and the ability to run my own cloud costs 4.99$. Most of the time it's just to much for just the convince. Besides I despise apps like Dropbox or Evernote that nag people I share stuff with to sign up for their service.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by pavlov on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:54AM (#16809782)
For this reason I feel that SaaS services that fall in the $10-$30 bracket are problematic. The price is too much for consumers who compare it to Netflix, whereas for businesses it's often ridiculously small and effectively leaves money on the table.

I like Discourse's pricing model: https://www.discourse.org

Their plans start at $100 / month, which is not a problem for real businesses. For everyone else, the software is full open source and it's reasonably easy to install on that $5/month cloud server instance.

The "free or $100+" model conveniently eliminates the support hassle of $10 / month users who typically are the most clueless and demanding.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Twisell on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:54PM (#16813061)
It’s also flawed for business when applying price to the wrong "user role". Especially in saas business intelligence where some companies want to charge service per users. This seems nice on paper and might work for big Corp with too much money. But for smaller business paying 50 licences while in reality there is 2 publishers and 48 readers is really messed up.

Anyone even slightly computer literate known that it’s a simple as fk login system that won’t cost more for 2 than for 50 users. So how exactly I’m supposed to suggest your product to my boss? He will just laugh. You must provide free "reader only" accounts or at least propose a bundle offer for small business. Unless it’s not your target, but really why go with per/user plan in the first place then?

The only worst business model for BI is bandwidth based payement for anything that involve open-data. Because I would then fear that my dataviz make some buzz on Twitter an that I blow my budget.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by osrec on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @08:09AM (#16810276)
Interesting. Do you think they miss out on a fair amount of customers at that price point?
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by nunez on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @08:40AM (#16810478)
They probably get customers that they actually want: businesses who are fine with paying >$100/month for their service and individuals who will likely be very, very supportive of their service since they value it enough to pay that much per month for it over other alternatives
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by naravara on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:32AM (#16810883)
I wonder if the free tier that appeals largely to enthusiasts and nerds also helps as a lead generation process. People use it and like it, they get jobs where they have a say in procurement decisions, and they advocate for platforms they like when they do.

It’s also a good “eat your own dogfood” way to make sure your platform is up to commercial standards for UI/UX and feature sets. A lot of enterprise software is garbage specifically because the people doing the procurement aren’t the people using the tools.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Silhouette on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:46AM (#16810984)
I wonder if the free tier that appeals largely to enthusiasts and nerds also helps as a lead generation process.

That seems like a reasonable business strategy. Software companies have long offered heavily discounted products to home and educational users, or simply turned a blind eye to piracy within those demographics. Then everyone leaves school and equates "word processor" and "spreadsheet" with Microsoft Office, "graphics program" with Adobe Creative Suite, etc. These days a lot of those big players seem to be trying to pull in more direct revenue from those markets with lower-priced versions of their subscription offerings instead, but that doesn't mean their previous business model wasn't good for them.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by prklmn on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:08AM (#16810700)
I watched the NCAA basketball final game and Dropbox ran what had to have amounted to several million dollars worth of ads. There comes a point when in order to drive revenue growth you need not only the businesses who are willing to pay top dollar and the individuals who are easily convinced, but a much larger swath of businesses and individuals. They want any customer with a wallet, and they may want bigger businesses more, but they’ll sell to anyone who will pay.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by JetSpiegel on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @03:57PM (#16814878)
Maybe, but the support hassle they save probably makes up for it.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by amygdyl on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:12AM (#16810738)
The consumer pricing structures, when you start getting services like Dropbox used extensively in professional settings, such as graphic design for advertising, is a problem. When we've got to go back to the original files with a press deadline that's​missed at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars, where do we expect to find the customer service, if we're impacted by a degraded node in Dropbox's cloud? I accept the problem is with the community of freelance designers, and equally the disinterest if agencies and other line of business data consumers to provide adequate alternatives (we do, with real enterprise grade systems and support contracts) but even Draconian measures to enforce control only back up a community who have been backed up and disenfranchised plenty enough by the large agencies pushing work off the payroll for the length of my career (decades...) and it just happens to be a hard sell to make any extra work for a highly talented community who are now treated as least cost providers.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by enitihas on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:41AM (#16810938)
Just curious, how do you get 500 GB and your own cloud for 4.99$. I use Dropbox and always felt their price is fair.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by cecja on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @02:28PM (#16813957)
It is a vserver from server4you.de with a special christmas offer for returning users but you usually get the 500gb two times a year.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by walterbell on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:59AM (#16809810)
For Mac, there’s a $15/mo app subscription bundle: https://setapp.com/apps
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by codingdave on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:34AM (#16810895)
That feels like an odd service to me - my use cases for my Mac don't change often, so minimizing the churn of my toolkit is important to my productivity. Why would I pay $15/month to be invited to churn on a system that isn't broken?
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by taneq on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:53AM (#16809771)
Or even spend the $8 on a thumb drive which goes on your keyring and will store 32GB or whatever that you'll have with you literally everywhere for the foreseeable future.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by toomuchtodo on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:33AM (#16810888)
That’s not really comparible to a cloud service that provides 1TB of storage and allows me to access my files from anywhere, or delegate access to others.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by parliament32 on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:35PM (#16812824)
As a consumer, I think I'm starting to prefer subscription services. They ensure the company continues to provide good service, with the threat of customers leaving if they don't.

Adobe's switch to the subscription model for Photoshop/Lightroom is an excellent example. I'd much rather pay $10/mo for both (plus a bunch of cloud storage) than a few hundred bucks outright (especially considering that we had to re-purchase the software anyway roughly every two years when a new version came out anyway). The subscription model is much cheaper for me, I don't have to decide between $$$ and new features anymore, and it guarantees Adobe will continue to provide support and updates to the software. The added benefit is that suspending a subscription is quite easy (away for vacation for a few months, busy semester at school, etc etc).

The downside is, of course, is that subscription software can look artificially cheap but can add up quickly.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by dingaling on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @02:00PM (#16813704)
The other downside being that if you stop paying, or Adobe stops providing, you can no longer work natively with your PSD and DNG files.

That's a huge business risk. And as searching for 'Creative Cloud suspended' shows, it's not theoretical.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by parliament32 on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @02:48PM (#16814190)
DNG is an open format: "Use of the file format is royalty-free; Adobe has published a license allowing anyone to exploit DNG, and has also stated that there are no known intellectual property encumbrances or license requirements for DNG. Adobe stated that if there were a consensus that DNG should be controlled by a standards body, they were open to the idea."

See also: http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/products_y7.htm

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Domenic_S on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:43PM (#16812920)
Adobe's Creative Cloud is a bad example (compared to say Netflix or Spotify) because the plan is annual, but paid monthly. The photography plan is $120/year, but they let you in effect finance the fee at 0% by letting you pay $10/month.

$10/month is more palatable to many than $120 all at once, but it nullifies the threat of customers leaving.

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by rahimnathwani on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @04:46AM (#16809192)
"I can see how it works for businesses but by definition that means its not so good for me."

That seems to assume that transactions between businesses and consumers are zero sum games. It's possible for something to be good for a business and good for you. For example, I subscribe to The Economist. It's good for me (cheaper than buying individual issues, and cheaper that suitable-quality alternatives) and good for them (up-front payment, lower distribution costs).

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Arqu on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:40AM (#16809714)
I have a completely other sentiment from the top post, and a good part of my friends circle as well. I work as a developer and the business model is much clearer to me. The thing is to distinguish a service and a product. Buying a game, I expect a 1 off purchase and to own it. However if I want to have access to all the games in existance for a flat monthly fee like 50$ per month, thats a completely different story, and there's strong reasoning behind it. To run a service it perpetualy costs money so one off doesn't cut it. Either you have to pay an upfront cost of the lifetime value (which would be way to expensive) or you have to keep buying "DLCs" since the cost so far doesn't cover the furhter development.

Also Dropbox and services alike might be cheaper to host for yourself, like many other things in life - car repair or home improvements, but that only cuts it if you are savvy enough in that particular trade. Thats the first part where it adds value - it simplifies things a lot. The second part is the ecosystem of integrations and sharing, and this goes to many other services as well. I usualy host my own for a large majority of services since its low volume use a free or small instance on any cloud provider does the work, however I still have Netflix, GSuite, Drive, Play Music and a range of others since they give to me more value than just doing it myself or are not worth the time effort.

Also as a software engineer by trade I really hope more people start understanding that if you want baddass apps and games which constantly update and run on online servers, it has to cost money perpetually and you have to either pay for a subscription, look at ads, or have a freemium type of model to support the cost and eventually earn a couple bucks.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by TeMPOraL on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @05:38AM (#16809446)
That works because they didn't lock the subscription yet.

Compare subscription to Netflix vs. buying a movie on a DVD (and maybe ripping a personal backup copy). The former is a subscription - you stop paying (maybe because of financial emergency), no movie. The latter is a one-time purchase, after which you keep the thing you bought forever (so when shit hits the fan, you still can cheer yourself up with your favourite movie.

I know I definitely prefer buying over renting/subscribing. Businesses prefer the reverse. It's a conflict of interest.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by martin-adams on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @05:50AM (#16809508)
However, with Netflix, if you do have disposable income again in the future, then you can restore you position exactly. But if you had to sell your DVD collection due to a financial emergency, the cost of replacing it is greater.

It doesn't work with things like cloud storage. Stop paying, you lose your data. It also assumes that Netflix in this example wont go out of business.

The mental model is what is different. I pay X per month for Y value per month. Rather than, I pay X now for Y value forever. I may not use that Y value now, I may use it in 12 months time (for example, I still have DVDs in sealed packaging because I thought I needed the value up front).

Then I use Audible where I subscribe for X credits and once I use it on a book, I can use it indefinitely. I like that middle ground.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by coheeman on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @08:28AM (#16810391)
>However, with Netflix, if you do have disposable income again in the future, then you can restore you position exactly. But if you had to sell your DVD collection due to a financial emergency, the cost of replacing it is greater.

You could also never sever your Netflix subscription and still lose access to your favorite movie because their licensing agreement ran out.

Even in your example, ownership wins out because you have the -option- to sell your residual assets in a financial emergency. There's nothing you can resell with your Netflix subscription money since you're just paying for the temporary privilege to watch a movie you don't own that might not be there tomorrow.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by dhimes on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @07:54AM (#16810186)
However, with Netflix, if you do have disposable income again in the future, then you can restore you position exactly.

If the business is still around.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Silhouette on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:57AM (#16811091)
Compare subscription to Netflix vs. buying a movie on a DVD (and maybe ripping a personal backup copy).

That's a good comparison, because it makes clear that both approaches can have merit.

For content I'm likely to enjoy watching or listening to again in the future, I too would always prefer to have a permanent copy. The medium doesn't really matter, but having the control does.

However, I've also seen a lot of content on services like Netflix that I enjoyed watching once but maybe wouldn't ever want to watch again. I got to watch it for far less money than I would have had to pay to buy a permanent copy, but Netflix still got some money from me in return. This was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by rahimnathwani on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @05:43AM (#16809474)
I was using The Economist as an example of a general point: just because something is good for a business, it doesn't follow that it is bad for consumers 'by definition' (as claimed by the commenter to whom I replied).
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by tonyedgecombe on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:09AM (#16809591)
True, it's just that most of the time it isn't good for me.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by amelius on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @05:25AM (#16809363)
But parent was speaking specifically about parent.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by duggan on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @06:18AM (#16809630)
I think it's pretty reasonable to read the parent as making a general assertion about subscription models from a consumer's perspective, particularly as they began their comment with, "as a consumer" rather than "as tonyedgecombe."

It's all well and good to say "well, I just mean for me, personally" but I'm not sure it's adding to the public discourse without any further qualification.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by fbelzile on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:02PM (#16812482)
Agreed. I have no problem paying for subscriptions when warranted (content such as Netflix, utilities, etc...)

The issue I have is when this model is applied to certain software that doesn't directly provide added value over time (like Office 365 or Photoshop).

When I purchase software, I want the ability to clearly compare the available features (value) vs the cost at that specific time. This is why Sendy (https://sendy.co) received my business over MailChimp (https://mailchimp.com). The software I sell is also a pay-once model and I feel much happier knowing my customers are getting good value for their money.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by scarface74 on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:18PM (#16817487)
You can buy Office for a one time cost of $149 for one conputer. I don't have a problem paying $9.99 a month or $99 a year for Office 365 for 5 computers and 5 tablets and phones. With 5 installations, that's enough for my laptop, my wife's, both of my sons and my mom. I can also use it on my iPad.

DropBox and Apple charge $100 a year for a terabyte of storage alone.

I really like JetBrains perpetual license, after a year, you get a permanent license to the version that was current 12 months from the time you subscribed - if you cancel your subscription in April 2018, you get to a license to whatever version was current April 2027.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by taytus on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:29PM (#16812764)
>The issue I have is when this model is applied to certain software that doesn't directly provide added value over time

As a professional photographer, Photoshop does provide value over time for me and my colleagues.

Why would you pay for something that you don't use?

I honestly don't understand what the problem is, if something doesn't add value, then why would you pay for it?. I don't see a real "issue" here.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Domenic_S on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:52PM (#16813035)
He said added value over time in exchange for a subscription. Photoshop has value, that's why it's being purchased; GP is saying that the subscription doesn't add anything additional, which I kind of agree with for a program as mature as PS.

It's a lease vs. buy calculation -- one site who did the math says:

> However, once you get past the two year mark, all bets are off—the subscription is more expensive than buying, even if you plan on upgrading every two years.

https://lifehacker.com/5904416/rent-vs-buy-is-adobes-creativ...

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by patorjk on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @02:01PM (#16813715)
If you just wanted Photoshop and not the cloud storage, your best bet would be the Photography plan, which is $10 a month and includes Photoshop and Lightroom. Placing the data in Excel, and assuming someone were to take the $585 Amazon price for Photoshop and upgrade every 2 years, it would take 14 years before that was a better deal than using the subscription plan. If you assume the $700 price tag, it takes 25 years. However, it only takes 3 years if you use the student plan numbers (though as a side note, it looks like the subscription plan is the only way to get Photoshop now).
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by Domenic_S on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @04:10PM (#16815030)
The math is different today because there's a $10 photography plan that didn't exist when CC launched, and as you point out you can't buy PS outright anymore.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by CM30 on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @01:19PM (#16813322)
As a consumer, I dislike them because they take away control with the buyer/user. If you buy a product in the traditional sense, that's it, you own it and you can (mostly) do whatever you like with it. Resell it, trade it, modify it, keep using it after whatever DRM system is taken down... you get the choice there.

The subscription trends seem like an attempt to sidestep that and remove people's freedoms so companies can dictate how their products are used.

The mentioned price thing is definitely bad too though.

Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by st26 on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:47AM (#16810987)
I would be happier to subscribe if <minor little tool> cost $0.50/mo instead of $10/mo. I only have room for a few $10/mo bills. But companies don't seem to be willing to drop below perhaps $5/mo.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by fundamental on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @09:57AM (#16811089)
With payment processor fees as well as per-user support fees (e.g. if a user asks a question), going to $6/year doesn't seem sustainable even if you have the market size which could provide a huge user base. For many projects they also have to keep in mind that their user base is not endless, so when it begins to saturate they need to have a reasonable income.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by ghaff on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:36AM (#16811468)
Not that it's easy to make money in mobile but there are apps that sell for a low number of dollars and they don't even necessarily have in-app purchases. I think it's more akin to micropayments albeit on a different scale. Personally, I'm very resistant to subscriptions. I don't want to be managing 50 $0.50/month subscriptions for this that and the other thing. Just too much mental energy to deal with.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by fundamental on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @11:23AM (#16812049)
Is that an entirely fair comparison? Personally I don't have the same expectations for a product where I have an ongoing subscription vs a one time purchase (i.e. ignoring the scale of $ I'd expect differences in support/ongoing development/community platforms/etc). Perhaps that's a minority view however.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by ghaff on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @11:34AM (#16812189)
Maybe? Certainly, lots of people expect app upgrades that handle new phone models and OS upgrades. Subscriptions probably do have a more explicit ongoing support relationship though.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by savanaly on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @12:22PM (#16812689)
Well of course, who wouldn't rather pay fifty cents than ten dollars for something? The question is really rather how can the average business survive after its revenue stream falls by 95%? They don't have volunteers staffing the offices and writing the articles.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by DelightOne on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @11:48AM (#16812318)
It attracts the wrong kind of people.
Re:Subscribers are the new, new thing in business by scarface74 on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:09AM (#16811214)
Wouldn't it be just the opposite? If something is good for a business that creates a product you use, and a subscription makes it worthwhile to keep producing that product, that seems like a win-win.