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Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by gambiting on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:58AM (#16752893)
I work for a large games company(as a programmer) and recently visited our customer support centre - man, it really hit hard realizing how much impact our product has on people, and how shielded you can be as a programmer from this impact. They played some calls for us, where people weren't even upset that our game wasn't working or the servers were down - they were just sad, they were at a difficult moment in their lives and our games would cheer them up, or they took a day off work to play, or they were ill and playing multiplayer with their friends was a highlight of their day - it just made me realize that if we break something, people care, and not just in a "I paid my money I want my game!!!" kind of way. As a programmer you work through your list of tasks and go home, especially in large companies the impact of what you do is hiding behind layers of customer support, community managers etc, where if it filters down to you it's already been diluted to a sterile bug description at best.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by stareatgoats on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:10AM (#16753940)
One of the sad side-effects of moving upwards in the programmer career path can be the loss of direct contact with system users. It was greatly gratifying to sit beside users in the office where I started to develop, to see what their actual needs were and to be able to provide solutions.

As part of a larger team of programmers one is shielded from those situations, and explicitly not allowed to make those decisions. It can probably not be any other way, but something is lost in translation.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by TAForObvReasons on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @12:02PM (#16756000)
I think it's possible to move up and still maintain empathy. The problem is the Silicon Valley mentality captured by the expression "move fast and break things". This frees you to disregard externalities and do what you want. As a result of that mentality, you actively try to forget the people on the other side. And "things" slowly expands to include everything from laws to social norms to human life.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by Retra on Thursday April 05, 2018 @02:57AM (#16762484)
This has nothing to do with Silicon Valley. That's just standard faceless corporation fare everywhere.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by blasdel on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:41PM (#16757631)
For better or worse the opposite happens at AWS

The upper parts of the developer career path as an individual contributor have more direct contact with system users

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by funkymike on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @06:04PM (#16759666)
This is one reason why I feel so satisfied when I can work on internal tools. If I build something for other people in the office I can get direct feedback and see how I have helped them.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by dijit on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @04:53AM (#16753120)
Oh hey! I know you!

I feel the same, although I took it a step further (and, too far honestly) and directly reached out to help people on Reddit, explained some misgivings regarding the product we made and generally help those who seemed to be having issues.

It's an eye-opening experience.. it's very easy especially when you're very hidden from it (as I was initially) and it's easy to dismiss people as being vitriolic, but the quiet ones aren't spewing venom and they don't have hate.. they just have sadness and that's jarring.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by alxlaz on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:08AM (#16753640)
At a former workplace (medical systems), they had a very cool and highly useful informal policy where they'd require every programmer to attend a surgery as early after being hired as possible (ideally within the first year or so).

Obviously everyone in this field knows how important it is to get things right. But actually seeing it is pretty mind-blowing.

It's the same for everything else, really -- with medical devices it's just easier to connect the dots and figure out why it's important. But technology touches people's lives in very unexpected ways.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by reaperducer on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:25PM (#16758044)
Interesting. Almost identical experience here. Coding for a health industry organization, I'm required to experience certain parts of the company as one of our customers would. Even if it's happening in a language I don't speak.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by Angostura on Thursday April 05, 2018 @09:30AM (#16764705)
> I'm required to experience certain parts of the company as one of our customers would.

Imagining management coming along and breaking one of your legs.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by pmtarantino on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:33AM (#16754077)
This make me want to start working on the game industry. Coding that transform into happiness is wonderful. What's the best path for this to someone who works in a mix of data science + big data + ml?
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by nerdponx on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:38AM (#16754113)
Several years ago Valve was hiring economists, nowadays I am sure they are also hiring a few data scientists.

The cynic in me suspects that data science for a game company will involve mostly marketing research, however.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by T-N-T on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @11:15AM (#16755509)
>The cynic in me suspects that data science for a game company will involve mostly marketing research, however.

Actually, there's a lot of it involved in game design. In the case of MMORPG, what to develop next as extensions or monthly content packs. In the case of single player games, feedback on building sequels. A lot of game developers these days put effort into gathering all sorts of telemetry from their games, RPG developer Bioware for example knows how many hours the average player spent on Mass Effect games, how many finished the game, how many made a customized character vs how many used the default face, how many played a female character versus male, how many imported saves from the previous games, which quests were completed and which were skipped, how much of the dialogue was skipped and many other things that are used to understand what to focus on for their next games. And it's all on a solo RPG, so they had to deliberately add some online analytics reporting functionality and are not just using stats that was lying around on an online game server log.

Guild Wars 2's developer arenanet is employing a data scientist and economist, John Smith, to manage and keep control of the virtual economy in their MMORPG. He's also head of the analytics team which is the primary decision maker on what content is going to be cut and which is going to be developed in the future.

Marketing can be a part of it but more and more, analytics is getting to contribute in game development decisions.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by nerdponx on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @06:40PM (#16759965)
Thanks for setting me straight.

One the one hand, it's cool that they are forward thinking about using telemetry to improve their products. On the other, it's a little upsetting and disheartening that I played plenty of Mass Effect and don't recall ever being given the option to opt out of telemetry. And I am the kind of nerd who will scroll through all the game settings before I even start.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by gambiting on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:14AM (#16762590)
Can you explain why you think that a player should be able to opt out of in-game telemetry(in a way other than not accepting the terms of service and not connecting the game to the master servers)? I'm genuinely curious what your opinion is.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by tomaskafka on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @12:38PM (#16756404)
How about game balancing?

That's what I did in a game company, I for example plotted (time or matches) vs. experience + # of people who made it that far for all players and identified a choke point where a large part of players had a long interval with a little progress (and so they dropped off).

Designers need help, some of them are fluent with (big) data but most aren't - and you can be their partner :).

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by Thaxll on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:16PM (#16757397)
They have stats about everything, how long you spend time in menu, how much you play the game, how much you complete, how long it takes you to achieve something ect ... Big companies have a lot of telemetry going on.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by abritinthebay on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:08PM (#16756730)
Designing based on user behavior uses data science too but companies like Zynga, King Games, CrowdStar (etc) have been using data science to analyze user behavior and monitization for at least a decade.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by Dylan16807 on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:47PM (#16757684)
That weekly economics blog at Valve sure lasted almost one month.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by thedailymail on Thursday April 05, 2018 @01:10AM (#16761948)
I hadn't heard of that before so I looked it up and was floored to see that the Valve econ blogger was Yanis Varoufakis, who is presumably no big deal in the gaming world, but is a very big deal in economics and public policy, particularly in the eurozone.
Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by muststopmyths on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:01PM (#16756649)
All the big companies are doing something with ML.Also,most online games need data analysis around balancing, revenue, etc.

Check out job openings at Blizzard, Riot, EA, Ubisoft, etc. Or pick a game you like and reach out to them through your extended peer network. If you live in (or know someone in) the Bay Area you are less than the proverbial 6 degrees of separation from someone who works in games.

Caveat: Unless it's an established studio turning out a reliable set of moneymakers, the job is going to be very unstable. It's like a combination of movies + startups. You will work your ass off and if the game is not a hit the company will fold and you'll be on to your next gig, if you can find one.

Re:A man who spent $100K to remove a lie from Google by gambiting on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @09:50AM (#16754637)
There is more of this going on in games than you'd expect actually, we even have some pure research positions open too. Email me @gmail.com and I can send you to our jobs page.