I ask because I've always heard that cats are obligate carnivores and cannot live off a vegan/vegetarian diet[1].
[1] https://pets.webmd.com/features/vegetarian-diet-dogs-cats
A cursory search shows that small levels of taurine is available from vegan sources. Goat and buffalo milk appear to be the best vegetarian source, but, if ~75mg/day for a cat is correct, neither seem close to significant enough.
Taking a B12 supplement, eating fortified food (american breakfast cereals often have B12, especially the "healthier" options (plain cheerios, corn flakes, nut grapes, ...), nutritional yeast, ....), eating eggs?
You mentioned lactose intolerance, but since you aren't really bothered by it, I assume cheese and possibly yogurt are absolutely no problem.
I guess my question is why can't you. What is it about a natural b12 deficiency that makes it so the normal vegan or vegetarian options aren't sufficient?
I'm certainly not saying there are no routes to surviving well as a vegetarian maintaining some form of anemia or other B12/Iron deficiency, but I'm assuming his direction was that due to its proven concentration.
I actually increased my diet of eggs, spinach, I'd long taken a cyanocobalamin orally daily before switching to a higher dose of methylcobalamin sublingual dose, and started eating yogurt.
I try and avoid an excess of cheese and grains because I simply don't need that much in the way of fats and carbohydrates in my current regimen.
Nutrition is complex, and I think it's generally accepted that acquiring nutrients through digestion is more reliable than supplementation. (so that I'm not saying this completely out of my ass, [0] [1])
[0] https://www.nature.com/news/nutrition-vitamins-on-trial-1.15...
[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-v...
But I actually had to look up nutritional yeast as I hadn't heard of it here (Canada). It actually sounds like a promising supplement to my own diet. It seems like the only catch is that it doesn't produce B12 naturally, and I'll have to be sure to pick up the fortified version (unless they all are?)
As an aside; I ate a vegan diet for 2-3 years and my B12 was fine. That’s not to say it would’ve been fine 2-3 years later, though.
How does the cat obtain whatever missing nutrients cause most cats to be obligate carnivores?
We had a cat that didn't eat cat food from May until October, we didn't assume it was a breatharian during that time.
When our cat disappeared (we assume a fox or wolf got her) after almost a decade of this, the farmers to either side of us started having mice and rat problems again :-)
I've always wondered how they could survive on that! But I suspect that since those cats lived mostly outside, they probably ate many other things, including small animals they caught in gardens, sheds, etc.
[1] http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/03/longevity-causes-of-death-i...
> That said, human edible != cat edible, don’t just feed seaweed to your cat without asking an expert
Or energy drinks.
They are finicky creatures.
(Also: not all energy drinks are vegetarian, so wouldn’t always solve the diet puzzle even if you confirmed it as safe).
Also I think the idea of animals having "personalities" is itself still contested, so additional observations that support it may help.
I think it's like the incident with the crow Betty. It didn't show that all new-caledonian crows were super smart, but it showed that they are in principle capable of deliberate, creative problem-solving and are able to employ it if circumstances align just right.
He once got into serious trouble by eating some medicated grain intended for the horses.
He still eats regular dog food too.
I think the elephant is just picking up something dusty. Maybe there's salt in it.
Aka animal abuse
> The man takes in rescue dogs, cats, monkeys and (in the past) even a handicapped illtreated tiger. He has some 40-50 pets in his home. There's even a video where he rescues a rat from being eaten by one of his cats, and releases it outside.
> He has offered that cat multiple varieties of cat food and meat in many videos. He himself has expressed concern that it's not eating the proteins it needs. If an animal refuses to eat food that is otherwise good quality and relished by all its friends, how can it be animal abuse?
Given the context of his life and the views he expresses about animals in his vlogs, I strongly disagree.
> The man takes in rescue dogs, cats, monkeys and (in the past) even a handicapped illtreated tiger. He has some 40-50 pets in his home. There's even a video where he rescues a rat from being eaten by one of his cats, and releases it outside.
> He has offered that cat multiple varieties of cat food and meat in many videos. He himself has expressed concern that it's not eating the proteins it needs. If an animal refuses to eat food that is otherwise good quality and relished by all its friends, how can it be animal abuse?
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/nutrition-greats/...
The cat in question seems to choose a vegetarian diet despite the caretaker giving it non-vegetarian food, and is likely hunting for meat when the caretaker isn't watching.
If you think force-feeding meat to an animal that doesn't want it is less abusive than letting them get meat by hunting if they want to, you're welcome to that very strange opinion.
That said, it seems to be noted elsewhere the cat eats presumably-non-vegetarian kibble.
The assertion is that a cat which chooses vegetarian cat food is probably fine because it's getting the necessary nutrients from hunting while the caretaker isn't watching. Could you quote anything from the Wikipedia page which refutes this assertion?
Linked for your convenience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Nutrition
I'm guessing you don't actually intend to propose force-feeding meat to a cat that doesn't want it, but in context that's what you're arguing for.
While I don't mean to imply that all plants are going to be like poisons to cats at any dose, almost all plants do contain antinutrients, which can be potentially toxic at some dose to an obligate carnivore.
Most of the toxin load in omnivorous diets, including the typical human diet, comes from stuff plants produce naturally. This makes a lot of evolutionary sense; chemical defenses are the only ones plants have and there is usually a subtle mix of nutrients and antinutrients even in popular domesticated foods. Apple seeds contains cyanide. Wheat contains lectins and phytates that block mineral absorption. In India's largest chickpea producing region they have to put a price floor on chickpeas, otherwise poor people will eat enough of them to die. I am not exaggerating when I say that basically all plant foods contain antinutrients, and like anything it's the doses that makes the poison.
(Another subtlety is there are few pure antinutrients. I mentioned phytates, which can cause mineral deficiencies in humans at high enough doses. But phytates may also be protective against cancer. This doesn't change the basic argument I'm making about whether cats are designed to filter out all the chemical warfare that plants unleash, in significant doses.)
This is basic stuff, although contrary to many people's uninformed opinion. Feeding a bunch of plants to a predator is dangerous in the short term and abusive over the long term. I'm sorry I don't have any specific links for cats and liver toxicity specifically, but in general you can look to "The Killer Salad", which is a chapter in one of Michael Pollan's books, or to the writings of Paul Jaminet if you want to verify what I am saying bout the majority of toxins in mixed diets coming from plant foods.
Here are a couple of cat specific links that only mention the liver/toxin issue in passing, they look at the issue more broadly: https://animalwellnessmagazine.com/cats-cant-vegetarian/ http://messybeast.com/veggiecat.htm
If you google for example foods and plants that are considered safe for dogs to eat -- and then compare to cats -- you'll find the list of stuff that's safe for dogs is dramatically longer. Same thing for essential oils, many of them can be very damaging to cats in small doses. It's because of what I have explained above.. predator animals are not evolved to filter out stuff the way others are... they are designed to eat animals who have livers evolved to do the filtering for them. There are plants described as "safe" for cats to eat and you will occasionally see a cat eat small doses of random plants. They are talking about occasional consumption. But making any plant the staple of a cat's diet is cruel. Imposing ideology onto nature requires ignoring a lot of evidence.
The burden of proof should be on those who advocate feeding an animal something far different to its evolved diet. Still, there is lots of evidence that cats do poorly the more their diet gets away from not just animal foods but raw animal foods... I cited a well known study that's quite old above, but I'm absolutely sure you can find more evidence on this, if you care to.
And the other type being a stray cat?
Confused about the term. Not a cat person myself.
There's nothing wrong with "pet X", you're just used to dogs and cats being pets by default.
Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species.
Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with balls, while others don't. On YouTube, I follow a cool guy who has a pure vegetarian pet cat getting along with many normal cats.
This particular elephant might have been simply curious about the smoke or might have been playing with it for the heck of it.
They are individual peculiarities and I don't think any conclusion can be drawn about the entire species from them.