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Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by citilife on Monday March 26, 2018 @07:32PM (#16683716)
At the massive institution I work at, we recently went all-in on O365 18 months ago and are now switching to Google (over the next 12 months). So perhaps, but the room for change seems to be evident.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by philliphaydon on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:11PM (#16684284)
I wish we were using O365, we are stuck on Google and its horrid. Google Docs is literally the worst thing in the world if you're not a chrome user.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by mrb on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:22AM (#16685495)
Word works best on Windows. Google Doc works best on Chrome. It's totally expected that if you go with the vendor's full stack, things will run better.

I've worked—at Google—extensively on documents using Google Docs on a Chromebook and the experience is pretty smooth.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by philliphaydon on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:12AM (#16686037)
O365 works great on Firefox in any OS. GDoc sucks on any browser that isn't Chrome. The most frustrating thing is that GDoc's is the only app I'm aware of that doesn't support right click / copy-paste from the context menu in any browser other than Chrome.

That annoys me the most.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by laken on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @08:01AM (#16687456)
Microsoft’s Office Online (their version of Google Docs) has the same behavior on Firefox with right click clipboard functions as GDocs, unfortunately.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by spydum on Monday March 26, 2018 @07:53PM (#16683850)
we did a similar thing. nobody can figure out why.

gsuite is cool for a couple hundred people, when you dont want to pay for office licenses for everyone. it makes even less sense when you already do. there is a serious productivity delta between gsuite and o365, especially if you are like 90% of the other companies where Excel is king (no, sheets is not a suitable stand-in).

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by RobLach on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:30PM (#16684080)
Excel is a big one.

It's used very technically and often by people who don't view themselves as technically capable so the lock-in is enormous.

Not to mention that you can't do 1/4 of what Excel can do in sheets without writing a googleScript. Don't even try to open a 100 column 1,000,000 row spreadsheet (which are more common than most think) in Sheets.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by jessaustin on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:21PM (#16684335)
If that operation happens more than a couple of times a year, the organization should have figured out an Excel replacement a long time ago. One possibility is that a human is doing something to each of some significant portion of those rows, in which case more data entry should take place earlier and closer to the business. If that isn't the case, then just write a damn report already!

Actually there is one more possibility, that one or more goofballs in accounting just like to waste time "looking over the numbers and getting a feel for them". This generates lots of spurious questionably-motivated inquiries to business and IT people (who always blame the other party, when only accounting is to blame for their own vague feelings). In that case don't worry about fixing anything at the company, just get a different job somewhere else.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by justonepost on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:34PM (#16684391)
Clearly you are not a power excel user. Excel is brilliant for such tables. The charting,manipulation, etl, and dramatic query functionality are astounding. In the right hands you can do truly amazing things.

That said, there are some great cloud analytics offerings which are going to compete.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by jessaustin on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:53PM (#16684487)
Let's stipulate that excel gives you all the chart-formatting crap you need. Is that a reason to pull in a million rows, which is what GP is about? Surely a chart with a million things displayed is going to be awful, no matter how well formatted. A simple shell script could save these users hours of work, every time they touch this godawful sheet. Actual analytics tools would be even better.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by specialp on Monday March 26, 2018 @10:36PM (#16684698)
Why would you do any of that when it opens up fine in Excel? A chart doesn't display a million things, it summarizes it. End users aren't going to be pumping stuff through shell scripts, and I personally am not in the business of writing office suite software. If people can get what they want, easily without my intervention by paying MS I am all for it. Also I don't want to support the sales department when my bash script streaming their stuff to Spark fails.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by singhrac on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:25AM (#16685802)
The truth is that Excel is easier to learn than programming. Call it 'graphical programming' if you will, but Microsoft did build a very powerful piece of software that performs fantastically great for many data tasks. And many many 3rd parties built extensions (data import, cleanup/statistics, formulas and logical programs) that Just Work.

I live mostly in a land of Unix pipes and vim, but I get it. Excel is a low-abstraction (everything is visualized!) graphical programming environment that the business world loves.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by pjmlp on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:05AM (#16685997)
Excel is the most successful FP language.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by cm2187 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:17AM (#16685770)
But the excel replacement is a 3 year IT project with a 60% chance to fail and an enormous budget. By the time it is done, the user will have forgotten what this project was even for.

Software development in large corporates is just too slow, costly and unreliable.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by bonesss on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:32AM (#16686171)
Part of the promise of cloud based document solutions, to my eyes, is being able to replace "edge databases" with user-facing user-editable spreadsheets.

Drain those IT projects of risk, get moving early, with a structure that lets the user guide the data modelling... Could be a nice local minimum :)

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by cm2187 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:21AM (#16686400)
Agree. Well, ideally you would want to give a path for non technical users to do more than spreadsheets. That was the promise of hyper-card, VBA, etc. But that's not the direction of the world anymore, quite the opposite.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by bonesss on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:00AM (#16687103)
Totally agree.

Nowadays you have JS to automate Google and MS docs, but 1) Javascript is kinda warty for VBA-type users, 2) API driven javascript is less friendly than the locally-logical VBA-style access, and 3) the mental barriers to entry are much higher than older solutions to the same issues...

In theory we should be approaching data-nirvana for end users. In reality it takes a lot of tech know how to bridge those gaps in the modern Enterprise and you're getting almost no help from the big boys.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by int_19h on Monday March 26, 2018 @11:34PM (#16684990)
It doesn't matter what the users "should do" when it comes to questions like competition and market share.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by jessaustin on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @11:08AM (#16689199)
Haha no HN partisan group "downvotes for disagreement" like Windoze partisans.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by skj on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:10PM (#16683960)
FYI Google used gsuite internally for its 20k-or-whatever engineers and, in my opinion, it works fantastically.

(I'm a Google engineer)

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by tomnipotent on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:15PM (#16684300)
I'll bet money that accounting & finance teams at Google use Excel.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by bronson on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:03PM (#16689798)
Yes... yes, they do.

Most of them use iPhones too.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by rootsudo on Monday March 26, 2018 @10:26PM (#16684648)
How do we find this out?
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by intended on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:20AM (#16685780)
Empirically we buy a company, tell the accounting team that we are changing to gsuite and see if the CTO gets fired, or the accounting team quits, or the company gets a hit.

IF neither, Gsuite is ok.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by kevingadd on Monday March 26, 2018 @10:39PM (#16684716)
I'd leave a moderately-sized (like 5 pages) work gdoc page open on my work machine at Google and come back the next day and it was using 1gb of RAM. Fantastic is certainly one word for it.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by spydum on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:18PM (#16684002)
Collab tools are fabulous no doubt, but sheets feels entirely neglected and basic. Permissions model is clunky and gsuite governance is nonexistent - you have to buy a CASB license to do anything effectively.

It's not a bad suite, I just think it's confused on some areas (don't even get me started on the chat/conference systems tho)

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by judge2020 on Monday March 26, 2018 @07:52PM (#16683843)
One issue currently preventing our move is the lack of a true desktop app. Sometimes you just need the native windows experience instead of your browser taking up even more ram to open a spreadsheet.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by smogcutter on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:45PM (#16684154)
Not to mention that sheets is far from a replacement for excel.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by radium3d on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:49PM (#16684176)
May I ask what you do with Excel that you cannot do with sheets?
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by purple-again on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:15PM (#16684305)
Libreoffice and Sheets are both dead in the water non starters for all of the finance guys that I know.

The ability to open a million line csv file with 75 columns and execute a search and replace without leaking battery acid out of every orifice in your machine.

The hundreds of long complex well vetted plug ins that are drop and play with Excel which serve niche hard to reason about corners of regulation legalese. There has been so much cross pollination between the major firms that everybody has these tools and implements their own little tweaks.

The ability to quickly spin up a VBA macro to do some heavy lifting in a client provided 250 worksheet workbook each with 50000 line items (none escape quoted so every address with a comma in it malformed the data on client export).

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by Pxtl on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:37PM (#16684402)
The CSV support in Excel is a nightmare. And it still does moronic destructive things if it mistakes anything you're doing for a date.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by olavgg on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:51AM (#16685930)
That is my experience too, and I also find LibreOffice to be much faster than Excel for huge datasets. The biggest difference for me is clearly file compatibility and that is why I still use mostly Excel.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by purple-again on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:30AM (#16686432)
I'm glad that you have found success, however I would like it if you could explain further because this is exactly why LibreOffice is considered unusable (large data).

I have 32g of memory and a SSD on this machine. If I attempt to open a 1,000,000 .csv file, add a filter at the top, and attempt to filter by a column, my computer is done. LibreOffice will go gray and never recover no matter how long it is left. Eventually it will crash. Do the same in Excel and it will successfully search the column and return just the line items with said column.

That example is egregious as well. LibreOffice can not handle 500,000 line items files with 30 text heavy columns. It crashes on numerous basic spreadsheet operations, however Excel handles them (and quickly).

I am not a Microsoft shill, I'm running open source from Linux to Ruby/Rust and all the way down to Postgres. I would love nothing more than to stop having to keep a second windows machine setup next to me just to handle large csv files.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by bronson on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:11PM (#16689887)
WHAT? CSV support in Excel is just completely broken. Million line CSVs are the only reason I have LO on my machine.

If LO would just make .xlsx a native format, they could probably take some market share from Excel. But, as long as there are little issues with interoperability, 100% of the world will be on Excel. Alas.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by smogcutter on Monday March 26, 2018 @10:29PM (#16684662)
For me personally, sheets is fine although slow. For our finance people, vba and dynamics GP integration is a requirement.

We switched from o365 to gsuite in the last year, and have run into some things that make it feel like gsuite isn’t quite polished as a business product. Examples off the top of my head:

- Can’t share individual folders from a team drive. Not a dealbreaker, but hobbles g drive as a Dropbox replacement.

- Email to a suspended user bounces. In exchange, the mail goes through but access is cut off.

- inviting a google group to a meeting doesn’t work as smoothly as inviting an exchange group

- can’t delegate account access administratively, need to do it from the user account

There are big pluses too, and overall I’m not sad we switched. But it feels like MS has a much better handle on what corporate IT needs.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by paulddraper on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:00PM (#16684233)
I'm sure the actual list is long, but I'd be happy if I could tweak graphs appearance, or do polynomial regression.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by michaelt on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @09:56AM (#16688363)
Plotting an X/Y scatter chart with lines linking the points.

Fit a polynomial trendline to a chart.

Choose the number of decimal places when showing a trendline's equation. Copy that equation, without re-typing it yourself.

Apply the solver to a nonlinear-but-continuously-differentiable system of equations.

You know, the stuff I could do in Office '95 on a 120MHz Pentium.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by adamb_ on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:54PM (#16684197)
Absolutely. Sometimes you just want to output a quick CSV, open it locally in familiar spreadsheet environment, and explore.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by abritinthebay on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:14PM (#16683980)
For email? Yet to find a situation that requires it.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by mastazi on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:47PM (#16684170)
Desktop email clients like Outlook let you do things such as: select all email messages -> save as .txt -> feed the .txt to a python script that extracts useful data.

If we were using GSuite I guess we could use the Gmail API to get the message body data, but at the end of the day having local access is just more convenient (edit: faster).

Edit: for everything else that is not email (spreadsheet, word processor, presentations) there are also similar advantages related to having full fledged desktop applications.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by matt_wulfeck on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:16PM (#16684310)
Interesting use case. What exactly are you extracting from email that you’d need a python script for computing?
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by mastazi on Monday March 26, 2018 @10:44PM (#16684747)
We do clustering on unstructured text and we output data in a Jupyter notebook. It's a proof of concept for now and the production pipeline will be a bit different. The whole Python ecosystem is awesome for this type of prototyping.
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by rubidium on Monday March 26, 2018 @09:37PM (#16684404)
And that you couldn't easily do with Microsoft flow and office 365?
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by mastazi on Monday March 26, 2018 @10:44PM (#16684750)
See my response to parent
Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by hug on Monday March 26, 2018 @08:34PM (#16684095)
The answer to this is fairly simple: Offline access to email. You need a client for this, and an arbitrary browser won't do.

Solved problem on iOS and Android with whatever mail app you want to use, but those are of course apps.

Solved problem on the PC with Outlook or "Gmail Offline", but "Gmail Offline" is a chrome-only feature so is, as far as I'm concerned, an offline email client built into Chrome, not a feature of Gmail per-se. See also: Any IMAP mail client.

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by abritinthebay on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @08:24PM (#16694067)
An arbitrary client won’t do either. It would have to be a specific one.

So now that we’ve removed the need for an arbitrary client in both cases why can’t localStorage/etc solve this to most users satisfaction?

Re:Microsoft surges 8% after Morgan Stanley says it will rea... by zeth___ on Monday March 26, 2018 @07:53PM (#16683855)
Never under estimate the capability of the C-suite to create busy work for everyone in the name of corporate vision.