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Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by mathattack on Thursday March 22, 2018 @06:48PM (#16653445)
There are liability reasons for not giving feedback. If I’ve had a good connection then I will give informal feedback on the phone only.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by bmpafa on Thursday March 22, 2018 @06:53PM (#16653484)
Most any form of helping someone out carries risks. Part of what makes acts of kindness praiseworthy is the acceptance of those risks for the sake of another person.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by phkahler on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:53PM (#16654150)
>> Most any form of helping someone out carries risks.

Really? I've never heard that. Can you give some examples? Preferably ones that seem harmless but could go wrong. I guess providing such examples is my job but I'm too tiered, so help me out.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by Nomentatus on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:49PM (#16654436)
Killing the messenger - it's true but they'll punish you for hearing it. You may remember that saying, if not: "No good deed goes unpunished."

All actions can backfire, I remember an old friend getting reamed out by his friend he'd given a computer to, when the hard drive failed, for not providing enough free maintainence. Given!

I had a friendship nearly end when I repaired a friend's computer. Something else went wrong a week later and he just assumed it must have been something I did.

A generous uncle of mine is forever finding that temporary favors like free rent are bitterly resented when withdrawn. People ain't all nice all the time.

Benefiting someone is not the same as pleasing them; psychopaths and narcissists please others, but the rest of us like to mix in a little benefiting-but-not-necessarily-pleasing now and then. Otherwise, the world just falls apart.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by chepaslaaa on Thursday March 22, 2018 @10:03PM (#16654503)
''Dressed in faded, threadbare GoreTex, a couple of months shy of his sixty-ninth birthday, Pete was a gangly, slightly stooped man who had returned to the high reaches of the Himalaya after a long absence. In 1966 he’d made the first ascent of the Vinson Massif, Antarctica’s highest point. In 1958 he’d made history as the driving force behind the first ascent of Hidden Peak, a 26,470-foot mountain in the Karakoram Range of Pakistan—the highest first ascent ever achieved by American climbers. Pete was even more famous, however, for playing a heroic role in an unsuccessful expedition to K2 in 1953, the same year Hillary and Tenzing reached the peak of Everest.

The eight-man expedition was pinned down in a ferocious blizzard high on K2, waiting to make an assault on the summit, when a team member named Art Gilkey developed thrombophlebitis, a life-threatening altitude-induced blood clot. Realizing that they would have to get Gilkey down immediately to have any hope of saving him, Schoening and the others started lowering him down the mountain’s steep Abruzzi Ridge as the storm raged. At 25,000 feet, a climber named George Bell slipped and pulled four others off with him. Reflexively wrapping the rope around his shoulders and ice ax, Schoening somehow managed to single-handedly hold on to Gilkey and simultaneously arrest the slide of the five falling climbers without being pulled off the mountain himself. One of the more incredible feats in the annals of mountaineering, it was known forever after simply as The Belay.*''

Jon Krakauer wrote that in Into thin air

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by vageli on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:03PM (#16654195)
Someone knocks on your door, bleeding from a wound on their arm. Are the a person in need or an armed assailant waiting to gain entry into your home?

A person flagging down help on the side of the road. Are they going to do something while you're in a vulnerable position changing a tire?

Most any interactions where "help" is more than verbal information transfer usually lead to situations where the helping party is put into a position of vulnerability. To help someone is to literally "go out on a limb" i.e. put yourself in a precarious position.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by bmpafa on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:31PM (#16654334)
^ this. also, there's an entire family of laws[1] designed to protect people from certain risks they take on when they decide to help someone in dire need.

These are all extreme examples, but I think the parent post example (not giving feedback b/c of liability issues) is cut from the same cloth.

Businesses take liability risks day in & day out. For some, the calculus concludes that (practically) selfless gestures, like giving applicants feedback, aren't worth that risk. That, imo, is a shame.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by cc439 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @11:13PM (#16654797)
>A person flagging down help on the side of the road. Are they going to do something while you're in a vulnerable position changing a tire?

There have been at least 2-3 different murderers who have used that technique in my local area within the last 5 years alone.It's just so wrong that I can't even wrap my head around it.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by mathgladiator on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:37PM (#16654370)
I create random small jobs, and I risk a bit of money in hopes of getting what I want. I don't need to, but I get a joy from creating opportunities.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by jriot on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:10PM (#16653584)
Everything appears to be a liability these days - that is the problem.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by simonebrunozzi on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:19PM (#16653636)
That is, in the US. I live in San Francisco, but I'm from Italy and have worked (and hired, and fired) people there in the past. I can assure you that all this "legal wall" around everything doesn't really exist in Italy, or at least it's vastly mitigated.

As a consequence, I was able to provide detailed feedback every time I rejected a candidate, for example, without even thinking of the legal consequences.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by jriot on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:27PM (#16653692)
Agree this is a US problem and I don't understand why.

It doesn't hurt me why you didn't select me.

You didn't think I would fit in culturally. Ok, no worries.

You didn't think I knew enough of what you wanted to know. Ok, no worries.

You didn't like the way I was dressed. Ok, no worries.

You weren't really hiring but were just testing the waters. Ok, probably won't apply again but no worries.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by Spooky23 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:14PM (#16654248)
Because the way our laws protect protected classes make it trivial to hustle employers.

I’ve been sued and served with human rights complaints for firing a sleeping employee (I wasn’t checking on the sleep/wake status of employees not in protected classes) and for allegedly terminating an employee because of their protected substance abuse issues.

It’s an incredibly time consuming, expensive and stressful process.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by mathgladiator on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:39PM (#16654381)
Wait, now I have to Google protected substance abuse issues. How is this a thing?
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by futhey on Thursday March 22, 2018 @10:41PM (#16654661)
Speculating but addiction is a disease, and corporate HR usually terminates for something like refusing to attend treatment / etc.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by Spooky23 on Friday March 23, 2018 @10:05AM (#16658255)
Good intentions and problematic incentives.

Medical conditions give you certain protections for good reason -- otherwise employers would just fire employees with cancer to keep insurance rates down.

99/100 these things are good, but it takes a couple of jerks to make life miserable for all.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by enraged_camel on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:37PM (#16653754)
>>Agree this is a US problem and I don't understand why.

Because the US has very severe issues related to racism, sexism, ageism and many other types of discrimination. So the laws are much tighter, which results in extreme caution and risk aversion on the part of employers.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by ag_camel on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:57PM (#16653852)
And other paces dont? Almost every country has severe issues related to all the above. In the US, we have litigation everywhere, you fall and slip in a supermarket? Lawsuit! You tripped over a pothole? Lawsuit! Heck, lawyers advertise to do this...
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by nemothekid on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:08PM (#16653913)
Part of this is we don't have a social safety net, like universal health insurance.

>you fall and slip in a supermarket? Lawsuit!

You fall and slip in a supermarket, due to a careless employee and now you owe hundred of thousands in medical bills. Some executive somewhere realized it was easier to extract that cash from a corporation than putting some person deep in debt.

Secondly, I believe America's relationship with race/sex/age discrimination goes a lot deeper than most countries, despite the fact we are younger.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by refurb on Friday March 23, 2018 @05:37PM (#16662820)
We don't have a social safety net? That's a surprise since 2/3rd of my federal taxes go to social programs!
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by Spooky23 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:18PM (#16654273)
Because nobody wants to be caught holding the bag. I went to the ER once because of a bad reaction to a burrito. (Serious pain and my fiancé made me go)

When I needed back surgery a few years later, I attracted the attention of my insurer’s subrogation team, who tried on several occasions to get me to state that I was in a car accident during the burrito incident.

You get hurt in a big way, your insurer will make you sue.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by r00fus on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:11PM (#16653925)
I want to agree with you but other countries suffer from similar issues. Why is it different in the US?
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by calvinbhai on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:27PM (#16653691)
I have had this experience with a few companies I interviewed with in EU, where I got feedback after rejection.

It feels so pleasant, yet strange, after having taken it for granted that I'll just get a templated rejection letter based on interview experiences in the US.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by skookumchuck on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:18PM (#16653976)
I've heard the "MeToo" movement, with its guilt by accusation, is having unintended consequences. Male executives are starting to avoid women employees in any situation where there are not other people present.

This means no going out for drinks to make a deal, no business lunch to brainstorm, no meeting on the golf course to pitch your plan. Not even a discussion of confidential matters in the private office of one or the other.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by ghettoimp on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:13PM (#16654245)
Huh. Well, for my part, I haven’t changed my behavior one bit due to it, and I’m (still) not worried in the least about being sued or something for treating my women colleagues as ordinary people. Shrug.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by skookumchuck on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:49PM (#16654433)
That'll work great until you run into an unscrupulous woman or a grey area.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by thowawayburnout on Thursday March 22, 2018 @10:34PM (#16654636)
Male school teachers I know in Canada tell me its common sense to never be alone with a female student in a room. One false accusation and your livelihood is DOA.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by skookumchuck on Thursday March 22, 2018 @10:51PM (#16654714)
Years ago I knew a professor who had a glass door installed on his office for that reason. These days it would be insufficient.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by throwaway84742 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @09:41PM (#16654395)
That is very real, and I have observed this personally, especially with male managers who have female reports.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by sjg007 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @10:08PM (#16654525)
Too many law school graduates.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by kolpa on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:25PM (#16654013)
There are reasons for everything. The liability isn't so great that is outweighs the benefit; it's simply that the corporation ascribes 0 value to helping the candidate improve.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by someone7x on Thursday March 22, 2018 @06:54PM (#16653490)
And there are competing humanitarian reasons for giving it. The sadness is that our laws choose the institution over the individual.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by bob_theslob646 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @06:52PM (#16653471)
Do you mean liability as in liability for discriminatory hiring practices by providing feedback?
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by btilly on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:22PM (#16653660)
No.

Liability as in the more that you have said, the more likely it is that a lawsuit will be filed based on a misunderstanding of what you did say.

It doesn't matter how unlikely the lawsuit is to win on the merits. Fighting in court and discovery both bring costs and distractions that institutions would prefer to avoid.

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by bob_theslob646 on Thursday March 22, 2018 @07:49PM (#16653811)
Makes sense.

I did not know this existed.

Thanks, learn something new everyday.

Bafflingly to think about...

(https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/lawsuits-based-the-h...)

Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by skookumchuck on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:21PM (#16653989)
Companies also tend to settle frivolous lawsuits because it's cheaper. Not giving feedback is not leaving any opening for frivolous lawsuits over the reason given.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by walshemj on Thursday March 22, 2018 @08:13PM (#16653943)
Its more like protecting the company from a Manager going of piste and saying we don't hire xxxx for these sort of jobs.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by mathattack on Friday March 23, 2018 @09:15AM (#16657706)
Exactly. A manager can say overqualified and the company gets sued for age discrimination.
Re:The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on emplo... by vernie on Thursday March 22, 2018 @06:51PM (#16653468)
If the candidate lives in a one-party state your ass is toast!