In this video [1] driving northbound, same as the vehicle in the crash, the car first goes under AZ-202, emerges under a streetlight, goes through a darker spot, then another streetlight (as you see the rocky outcrop), and then a very dark spot: and suddenly, you see a right-turn lane that wasn't there before. The latter dark spot is where the crash happened.

Another video by the same author, driving southbound [2], provides another useful reference. And these videos are three years old, yet the illumination of the roadway has not improved. Cameras exaggerate the contrast a bit, but not unreasonably so. The streetlights in question essentially aim directly downwards, illuminating the roadway immediately underneath, but much less of the surrounding air than other designs. This is responsible for the dark gaps, albeit it does significantly reduce light pollution.

[1] https://youtu.be/zEaTdYJExq8?t=8m50s [2] https://youtu.be/yfR7krN7z00?t=23m26s

EDIT:

Found more. The car in this video is going southbound, camera facing backwards [3]. This view faces the same way as the Uber did, but of course this video is moving away from the scene, and offset by a few dozen meters to the west. The drastic change in roadway illumination can still be seen.

In a fourth video [4], the car is going northbound, like the Uber, in the proper lanes, but the camera is pointing obliquely front-right. The illumination seems better, but you can still see the intensity of the shadows, including environmental shadows and the car's own shadow, as it moves between the lights.

[3] https://youtu.be/0Dum8Fj71JU?t=13s [4] https://youtu.be/6qHcuW_LCIU?t=16m45s

Everyone is moaning and slicing and dicing what the self-driving vehicle did wrong but, since you're familiar with the area: are pedestrians typically expected to be crossing this road?

Seems like the accident has a lot of factors that might not only be the self-driving car's fault, nor even a human driver that was fully in control. Regardless of how well people may want self-driving cars to do, one thing that can actually exist in the present is to make sure that we are creating safe ways for pedestrians to cross a road.

I've driven many thousands of hours at night and have dealt with a fair number of crazy pedestrians including a rather ... uncoordinated ... guy in Casa Grande who decided to go in circles on his bike in the middle of the road at around 3 AM for no discernible reason. Fortunately that place was much better lit and I was able to see him and stop until he got out of my side of the road.

So it's not that common, but yes, every so often you will see some person in black jaywalking across a wide road at night and they're quite hard to see. I don't think a lot of people appreciate that the streets here are wide & fast and that there just isn't that much pedestrian traffic even in daytime.

Here in LA, it's dense and traffic can't get up to very high speeds and we have relatively frequent places to cross safely if people choose to do so. I've definitely seen those who choose not to walk an extra 100 feet to wait at a crosswalk nearly hit in dusk or night traffic.

No amount of automation is going to bring the accident rate down to 0 so through a combination of factors, such as traffic and community design, we can work in tandem with automated driving to get closer. There's still the X factor of our human ability to do really dumb stuff.

I've crossed these myself, but I always look both ways.

Tucson does it due to the nearby observatory. The greater Phoenix area has a huge glow that washes out all the stars. You can see the glow as far away as Casa Grande when you come out of the little rocky pass on I-10 north of there.

Edit: removed a duplicated word.

I live in the Phoenix area, on the west side closer to Glendale (specifically, the border between Phoenix and Glendale is literally in my back yard).

There are times in the summer where the glow from the city is so bright, that rather than a dark sky (never black), you have a grey dimly lit sky instead.

Literally, "the sky was the color of television tuned to a dead channel" - maybe not as bright as the static Gibson was referring to, but still bright enough to see by - even without a full moon.

This wholly contradicts my experience driving at night on a street with street lights. I can't recall a time in my entire life I have had significant difficulty seeing into the gap between street lights. Keep in mind that the gap is not arbitrarily chosen.

Edited to note that I have experienced difficulties in low-vis conditions such as snow storms, sand storms, VERY strong rain storms, etc. None of which apply to this situation.

I’m not sure a typical eye exam checks for it, either, because none of the tests I can think of seem like they’d be useful.

(As usual, an even keeled comment based on family experience is -2 and rapidly being silenced with zero feedback inside 5 minutes, which makes me wonder why I contribute to this community at all, probably time to stop)

I did one at my last eye exam and it was pressing a button when you see dim flashes in all different locations. If you had low sensitivity, you wouldn't see those flashes and presumably you'd get a low score.

I would also not judge the community based on reactions to this very contentious thread - i am wary of jumping in on this one, but thought it worth noting your comment was not wildly out of place.

stay, we have cookies :-)

I actually believe i am representing HN as a place where different opinions can be voiced, hopefully in a manner to generate light not heat. Heated discussions are rarely the useful or interesting ones to read.

Thank you for appreciating my enthusiasm.

PS Are you using two accounts - one ("my 'unpopular opinion' account) for saying things you fear people might not like? That seems odd. May I ask why?

It's not supposed to be, no. But the gaps are not always optimal. The spacing of the street lights in the video (to the extent I can tell) seems to be quite wide, wider than I would think is optimal.

Not according to the post by niftich upthread.

Looking, right now, at a parking lot between two lights from a well-lit room. I can make out most of the outline of the black car in the middle of the "darkness" without any trouble. This isn't even the low light vision kicking in (which I agree isn't going to kick in if you're driving). Human vision should be able to make out the pedestrian earlier than the video footage.

Also, are you looking straight at the car? Or are you looking elsewhere so that the car is in your peripheral vision, the way it would be if it were on the side of a road you were driving on?