Feeding an addiction doesn’t lead to happiness, it staves off withdrawel. Happiness is a positive thing, not the absence of a negative thing. Addictions also tend to lead to other addictions, since the underlying “circuitry” is the same, in the same way that strong belief in one conspiracy theory is the biggest risk factor for believing in others.

So the medicine became an additional anchor trying to sink you?

> Feeding an addiction doesn’t lead to happiness.

That's a matter of opinion. You are not an arbiter of the human condition.

One of my friends runs a game shop. He told me a wealthy surgeon would come in weekly and buy $5,000 worth of baseball cards - either as singles, boxes of unopened packs, or whatnot. I remarked that the surgeon must really enjoy the hobby. He replied that the surgeon looked exceptionally distraught every time he made a purchase, but did so regardless.

It's just anecdata, but being able to support an addiction doesn't mean you have control over it, nor that you're happy about having it.

Speaking of which, it's time for me to get off HN and do some real work.

The traditional quote being by W.C. Fields:

“I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.”

These games don't make you happy, they addict you to short term dopamine dumps. The games are engineered to reward spending money.

After quitting WoW, I realized it was a waste of time. During my addiction, I would have used this argument.

I actually found my WoW time to be highly productive: it made me realise you can generally achieve the things you want in life if you focus on them (I went from a total noob to playing competitively in a guild that achieved a few world first kills in about 2 years). It also gave me an iPhone app idea that made me a few hundred grand and took me about two months to develop.

Mind, this was about 10 years ago, during Burning Crusade. If I had to start over, I'd do it all again -- had great fun.

Generalizations are never a good idea. The vast majority of people can handle these types of games/gambling and some can even make the best of it. People tend to want to villainize it because some <1% of users abuse it in a way that harms their life, while most people just do it for fun.

People like to ban and stigmatize these types of things, but I'm curious if it's possible to bake some protections into it. Kind of like how bars stop giving you drinks if you look drunk.

For example: stop a user with "you're spending money too rapidly (maybe some small sub-text/link about gaming addiction)" with a temporary 1-2hr block to force them to break out of their impulsive loop and question their actions, but are free to continue after that time.

It might make financial sense as it may keep the user spending money for a longer time period, without destroying their finances or making it become such a problem they have to stop altogether.

Some if not most remain stuck in the game with no iphone app project. Depends how addicted you get. If you know you can't manage addiction you better avoid it(i.e don't play games that never end)

I played a lot (there were definitely 15+ hour days), but I don't think I was ever really addicted. Just plotting the course and working towards the goal. Once I achieved that, I only played competitively for about 9 months and then quit.

To be honest, as ridiculous as it sounds, I really needed that to boost my self esteem. It has a lot of the same social constructs the real world has from which you can learn. That experience definitely helped me grow from being a socially awkward person to being more sociable and approachable, and having more belief in my own ability (.. even though it was just a game!).

I don't think school would've ever been able to do that.

To build on that a bit, I think one of the main issues with comparing one's own experiences with others' is that each person's brain is wired differently, so how one perceives, internalizes, and reacts to an experience is not necessarily how someone else does. I think it's the same kind of thing that makes one person like a food that another person hates, or that causes one person to like thriller movies while another doesn't. In the same way, I think one person can spend a lot of time and money on an activity responsibly and positively, while another person has a higher chance of succumbing to deleterious interactions that become habit or addiction. However, the fact that some people can enjoy a game responsibly doesn't really excuse the game maker from taking advantage of those who can't.

>However, the fact that some people can enjoy a game responsibly doesn't really excuse the game maker from taking advantage of those who can't.

I agree with what you're trying to say, but not with this statement in particular. I think it is possible to create a lovely game that unfortunately ropes in an addict as a side effect, but that isn't what the industry is about right now.

Game development conferences have been strewn full of talks specifically aimed at exploiting human psychology to generate additional profit - triple A games are designed around addictive loops constructed to provide maximum addiction and resource extraction for a minimum of game assets. I recall one slide in particular that measured the amount of profit per MAU and listed different game mechanics (PvP adds 10 cents per MAU, adding a fake rate-limit to your game adds 15 cents per MAU, cosmetics adds 7 cents per MAU, applying negative effects to your friends for your non-participation adds 13 cents per MAU, etc.) within a year, almost every large mobile game offering contained ALL of the mechanics on the list - and now their prevalence has leaked into other markets as well.

Accordingly, I'd say it isn't justifiable to build intentionally exploitative addictive systems just because some people can moderate their designed negative effects.

> I agree with what you're trying to say, but not with this statement in particular. I think it is possible to create a lovely game that unfortunately ropes in an addict as a side effect, but that isn't what the industry is about right now.

I don't think you're actually disagreeing. Taking advantage, as I put it, implies intent. To incidentally benefit from the consequences of an unfortunate side effect is not equivalent to taking advantage of the effect.

> Accordingly, I'd say it isn't justifiable to build intentionally exploitative addictive systems just because some people can moderate their designed negative effects.

This is the same statement in different words. "Exploit" is probably a more direct word to characterize the sentiment.

> it made me realise you can generally achieve the things you want in life if you focus on them

I'd be cautious here; video games are designed, artificial worlds where difficulty level is carefully controlled by the maker. They are designed to give you sense of accomplishment and empowerment, so they cannot be too difficult, whereas real world accomplishments can be brutally difficult to achieve.

I think you're totally right. At the same time, GP is onto something (paraphrasing with some liberty) "with the right dedication, (almost) anything can be achieved." In my experience, this attitude of seemingly unfounded optimism can give a big boost in real achievement as well.

In terms of $12 a month WoW is a super cheap way to spend your time.

Ignoring opportunity cost, of course.

If you're comparing the cost effectiveness of entertainment then a high opportunity cost of an especially efficient choice is arguably just an additional bonus.

The original Guildwars would warn you if you played the game too long and tell you to go outside and take a break.

Happiness is subjective, and if short term dopamine dumps make one happy, then one should spend (not waste) as much money as they please seeking that out.

In fact I would argue that's the entire purpose of earning money in the first place!

Ahahahaha... I believe many a burnt out trust fund kid in rehab would agree with you here. Sometimes I wonder how many people would end up dead or in rehab if they didn't have to go to work everyday. Not everyone, but a fair number I'm sure.

I think you're right that too much money that one didn't earn can be a problem.

But certainly money a person earned themselves is theirs to enjoy. I'm spending mine driving around Africa, it's great not to go to work for 2+ years !