News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by superflyguy on Friday March 09, 2018 @12:22PM (#16553222)
... Taking a whole server offline, and forcing thousands of drug users to go "uh... Guess I have to use a different server now".

From what I've heard, people are just selling over Facebook and WhatsApp, and the police just can't be bothered with it because what are they going to do? Arrest people for buying small amounts for what is obviously personal use? Or try and track down and pin a case on someone for posting stuff. I can't see them taking Facebook down.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by xkcd-sucks on Friday March 09, 2018 @12:46PM (#16553428)
> 'During their time as black market administrators, the Dutch police only banned one product on Hansa: the highly dangerous opioid Fentanyl. All other drugs on the site continued to flow freely, a circumstance over which Ras and Boekelo seem surprisingly unconflicted. "They would have taken place anyway," says Ras without hesitation, "but on a different market."'

So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by kobrad on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:21PM (#16553676)
Or you are looking at this from an american perspective? Just guessing here. Everybody else on the planet figured out that prohibition doesn't work
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by kristofferR on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:45PM (#16553871)
That's wrong, Asia (and large parts of Africa and Latin-America) are treating drugs more harshly than the US nowadays.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by SolarNet on Friday March 09, 2018 @02:00PM (#16553991)
Yea the poster was being hyperbolic, but the Netherlands is pretty fine with drugs for personal use. Their problems seems to be the tools the site is selling for committing other crimes (forgeries) and the larger sellers (who often have ties to other more heinous crimes).
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by s73v3r_ on Friday March 09, 2018 @06:28PM (#16556003)
Yet, people are still using them. Otherwise we wouldn't still hear stories about people being executed for smoking pot.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by kolpa on Friday March 09, 2018 @02:42PM (#16554339)
They've a lot of catching up to do, per web-search [asia opium export]
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by golergka on Friday March 09, 2018 @02:41PM (#16554325)
I'd be very careful reading about how laws in asian countries work in theory (on paper) without experience of what real life enforcement looks like.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by adventured on Friday March 09, 2018 @07:30PM (#16556299)
Yeah right.

"Chinese Drug Dealers Are Being Sentenced to Death in Sports Stadiums and Public Squares"

http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-spor...

[2015] "On Wednesday, China’s Supreme People’s Court argued that serious drug crimes merit the death penalty. Serious cases involving “drug lords, professional drug dealers or re-offenders” as well as “drug smuggling, organized transnational drug crime and armed or violent drug crime” should all receive capital sentences, according to a circular released by the SPC."

https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by dannyw on Friday March 09, 2018 @08:39PM (#16556609)
The reality of the situation is if you are connected, privileged, and drop some gifts or hush money, you won’t face a thing.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by idiot900 on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:57PM (#16553970)
Fentanyl is extremely potent - its clinically relevant doses are measured in micrograms. Appears they were concerned with reducing mortality first.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by InitialLastName on Friday March 09, 2018 @02:48PM (#16554399)
What? Public health-oriented drug enforcement? Who would do such a thing? \s
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by WJW on Friday March 09, 2018 @03:17PM (#16554632)
Surprisingly common in the Netherlands.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by HarryHirsch on Friday March 09, 2018 @03:36PM (#16554780)
I'm asking half-seriously here: assuming the fentanyl pill guy could demonstrate Good Manufacturing Practice, i.e. dose constant and as advertised and equally distributed throughout the pill, would he be sentenced more leniently?
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by KMag on Saturday March 10, 2018 @06:54PM (#16560781)
At least in the US, it's almost certainly not written into the law or sentencing guidelines, so any leniency based on improved safety would have to be at the sole discretion of the judge.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by anarazel on Friday March 09, 2018 @08:44PM (#16556632)
I think it's commonly used to cut other drugs (coke), so I don't think that argument would go far.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by stordoff on Friday March 09, 2018 @09:03PM (#16556689)
I'd be very surprised if the fentanyl (or its analogues) in cocaine is deliberate (unless the goal is to harm users, which seems unlikely) - they are very different drugs. It's used more to be passed off as other opiates, because it's much cheaper and its potency makes it much easier to smuggle (carfentanyl being approximate 5000 times more potent than heroin). I'd suspect that the fentanyl in cocaine is coming from cross-contamination - lethal doses of carfentanyl are measured in micrograms, so anything less than perfect cleaning of equipment used to process both drugs could result in a fatality.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by anarazel on Friday March 09, 2018 @09:38PM (#16556800)
There's press reports about the DEA warning about it. E.g.: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-reg-cocaine-cut-...

That's what I remembered.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by KMag on Saturday March 10, 2018 @06:59PM (#16560807)
I'm sure it has happened at least once, but I suspect that the DEA gives it press coverage way out of proportion to its incidence.

As an adolescent of 12 or so, I remember watching a D.A.R.E. video in school where the fictional character tried marijuana for the first time, but it was secretly laced with cocaine and the fictional character had some kind of unspecified heart condition and hyper-sensitivity to cocaine that caused his first puff of pot to kill him. Remember kids, your first puff of pot can kill you!

They also told us that sometimes PCP is laced with rat poison.

Even as a 12 year-old, the implied frequency of such craziness beggared belief. It would have been more believable if they would have warned us that we shouldn't try hard liquor because it might be tainted with methanol. That at least happens with some frequency back in the Old Country, according to a Bulgarian friend.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by grzm on Friday March 09, 2018 @09:05PM (#16556693)
Mixing cocaine and heroin is not all that uncommon. Sounds like a variant of a speedball:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedball_(drug)

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by stordoff on Friday March 09, 2018 @09:16PM (#16556724)
Sure, there are certainly users who will mix the drugs, but mixing the two and then selling it as just cocaine seems strange. Supplying strong opiates to the (potentially) opiate-naive without their knowledge seems to be an unnecessary risk, and it is probably bad for business as you aren't supplying the experience that a cocaine user may be looking for.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by megaremote on Saturday March 10, 2018 @02:52AM (#16557614)
It is very uncommon.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by etcet on Friday March 09, 2018 @03:27PM (#16554702)
But surely the market for Fentanyl "[took] place anyway but on a different market"? It's such a short sighted move in an otherwise well played plan.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by wbl on Friday March 09, 2018 @04:30PM (#16555233)
Maybe not. No one wants fentanyl: they want diacetylmorphine, and will take fentanyl if they can't find morphine. Opiates are all the same.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by stordoff on Friday March 09, 2018 @09:08PM (#16556700)
Did you meant _aren't _ all the same? They're certainly similar, and fentanyl will satisfy the cravings of those addicted to other opiates, but compared to heroin/diacetylmorphine has a shorter duration of action and reportedly less euphoric/more sedative effects.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by dv_dt on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:28PM (#16553730)
The goal is likely aligned more with a different approach to management of drug use. Jumping to stopping drug trade as an immediate goal hits a lot of assumptions on what an effective policy can be.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by setr on Saturday March 10, 2018 @12:24AM (#16557238)
It's also a lot easier to track down the whole network, and importantly, the bigger players, if you're tracking them.

Shut down the site, people move to another one, and you've got to start all over again.

Shutting it down is aligned with career progression (gets the big news). Leaving it running gives you some chance of affecting the actual drug trade

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by BoorishBears on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:05PM (#16553560)
Or they have a similar problem that CT is facing and were focused on the human cost:

https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/fil...

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by geofft on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:15PM (#16553621)
Non-broken URL (thanks, AMP): https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg

I agree with you that this sounds like a sensible strategy, and I don't understand the complaint above about career progression - to the extent that their careers were benefited by focusing on the most serious problems instead of a performative war on drugs, props to the system for enabling them to do this. People always make decisions based on career progressions, the best thing to do is set up incentives so those decisions are also good for society.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by refurb on Friday March 09, 2018 @03:42PM (#16554835)
Jesus! What a bizarre statement. Didn't he just say that regardless of what the police do, drug transactions will continue? Why they hell do you both going after them then?
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by cpncrunch on Saturday March 10, 2018 @11:29AM (#16559069)
>So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such

No, you should read the article rather than automatically assuming bad faith.

"Since the takedown, Ras says, they've arrested a dozen of Hansa's top vendors, with more arrests planned for coming weeks"

"While most drug vendors who fled AlphaBay showed up soon after on other dark web drug sites, those who fled Hansa didn't—or if they did, they recreated their online identities thoroughly enough to escape recognition"

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by jimrandomh on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:49PM (#16553899)
Not all of the sales that take place on darknet markets are for personal use; some are bulk orders that will be split up for local resale. Investigating those buyers is well worth the investigative resources.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by kolpa on Friday March 09, 2018 @02:43PM (#16554345)
why is personal use OK but selling for personal use bad?
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by judge2020 on Friday March 09, 2018 @03:34PM (#16554758)
Personal use is still 'bad', but it's more efficient for police to go after resellers on the streets than all 50 individuals who bought from those resellers.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by Franciscouzo on Friday March 09, 2018 @04:29PM (#16555217)
Why is personal use 'bad' then?
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by tomkarlo on Friday March 09, 2018 @05:55PM (#16555766)
It's irrelevant if it's "bad". It's illegal, which means that at least in theory, law enforcement is supposed to pursue and prosecute it, since their mandate is to enforce the laws as passed by the legislative body, etc.
[dead]
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by dragonwriter on Friday March 09, 2018 @06:57PM (#16556150)
> Unless you're in California, in which case you pick and choose what laws you pursue and prosecute even though as a state body you fall under federal laws.

“State bodies” are not required to pursue and assist with enforcing federal laws, and are generally prohibited from prosecuting under then except when states have been granted special power to do so in federal law. These are fundamental features of the “dual sovereignty” federal system in the US (and the freedom of states to decline to enforce federal law was noted as far back as in cases related to the Fugitive Slave Act prior to the Civil War.)

If the federal government wants to make laws, then it is also responsible for figuring out how to enforce them. Within certain bounds, it can bribe states to do it, but it can't command them to.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by scurvy on Friday March 09, 2018 @07:34PM (#16556327)
writ of mandamus?
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by dragonwriter on Friday March 09, 2018 @08:42PM (#16556622)
A bare noun phrase is kind of vague as a question, but.

> writ of mandamus?

Yes, it exists.

No, it doesn't obligate state bodies to “pursue” or “prosecute” violations of federal law.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by scurvy on Friday March 09, 2018 @07:33PM (#16556323)
Heroin is basically legal in San Francisco. Public injection is 100% tolerated by police (not by most citizens though). Police won't arrest you for buying heroin. DA certainly won't prosecute even if you are arrested.

Hell, you can buy heroin directly in front of the Tenderloin police station. Not across the street, directly in front.

de facto, I'd say heroin is basically legal in San Francisco.

Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by vageli on Friday March 09, 2018 @05:17PM (#16555503)
Because the law says it's "bad" and that's why everyone used quotes around "bad".
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by ggg9990 on Friday March 09, 2018 @06:33PM (#16556045)
Because heroin addicts cause vast destruction to their communities and families.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by burger_moon on Friday March 09, 2018 @08:54PM (#16556665)
Don't forget about reddit which has also become a popular destination for drug trade. It's actually pretty surprising when you realize the same site everyone uses for funny memes and arguing about politics is also a go-to for illegal drug trade.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by tasty_freeze on Friday March 09, 2018 @10:10PM (#16556879)
There are certainly subreddits to talk about various drugs, and subreddits that the darknet markets and how to use them, but as far as I know, there aren't subreddits for people to directly buy/sell/trade in drugs. Can you cite a subreddit where is a popular destination for drug trade?
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by mhh__ on Friday March 09, 2018 @10:38PM (#16556960)
Ditto, no drug related subreddit I know of doesn't explicitly ban dealing.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by nugi on Saturday March 10, 2018 @09:00AM (#16558482)
I won't out any, but while the rules are there, many deals take place using very thinly veiled codewords. Craigslist, mocospace, facebook, letgo, etc all have pretty blatant drug selling in the open as well.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by mhh__ on Sunday March 11, 2018 @06:47PM (#16565144)
Oh definitely: A friend showed me people openly selling weed on Instagram - no PGP or anything like that.
Re:How Dutch Police Took Over Hansa, a Top Dark Web Market by siruncledrew on Friday March 09, 2018 @01:56PM (#16553964)
More likely they are trying to go after the distributors rather than the users