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Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by pdpi on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:44PM (#16539703)
Facebook already has plenty of issues with people not trusting them. Lying about this and then being caught red handed would be devastating from a public opinion perspective. Even if you assume a completely amoral team that cares about nothing but ad revenue, do you genuinely think they’d risk something as dangerous as that? Especially given how much you can still achieve with the data that is known to be collected?
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by pmoriarty on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:04PM (#16539874)
How devastating would it be, really?

It would likely be a blip in the news, and then people would move on, as usual.

Remember the Sony rootkit fiasco? People still buy Sony, and most people probably either never heard of that incident, don't remember, or don't care. Buying whatever the new Sony gizmo of the day is is more important to them.

Microsoft has had endless spyware fiascos, and people still routinely buy Windows, as long as they can play their games or run Office, that's all that matters to most of them.

Then there have been scandals like Enron, where the execs knew that they were doing something that was clearly illegal, and that their company really would be devastated if what they did was ever revealed. These "smartest people in the room" did it anyway.

Corporate history is full of just such deceptive and destructive practices. I'm not sure I'd put Facebook above that sort of thing, a priori.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by ryandrake on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:52PM (#16540268)
Exactly. People would be outraged! and they will happily log into Facebook to post their outrage about Facebook.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by Trundle on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @07:42PM (#16541317)
I remember when some news broke about Facebook doing something or other a year ago and the common response seemed to be to make an official sounding wall post saying "I do not give Facebook the right to do X with my data", sort of like Michael Scott yelling "I declare bankruptcy!"

I can see that happening again with voice recordings.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by SilasX on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @06:20PM (#16540909)
True. At the same time, there are pretty solid rules against recording the audio of someone's conversation that would be unambiguously illegal and allow for actual prosecution.

But it's an interesting question: if someone credibly proved that FB was "wiretapping" on such a massive scale, would they get prosecuted? How much could they do in their own defense? Are they so enmeshed that prosecutors wouldn't bother?

Feels like a case of "unstoppable force meets immovable object".

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by fjsolwmv on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:03PM (#16541404)
Any app that had microphone permission at all already has your permission to use your microphone.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by herogreen on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @05:05PM (#16540381)
Speaking of badware: last week I found Mac Afee installed on the laptop of a relative that I manage. I assured me that he had not installed it himself (I had not installed anything actually). Could it have come from windows updates ?
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by mynameisvlad on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @05:53PM (#16540739)
No, Windows Update doesn't distribute third party software. And even if it did, MSE is technically a competitor to McAfee so there wouldn't really be a solid reason to distribute it.

Your relative probably installed something and pressed "Next" through all the dialogs including the ones asking if they want to install super helpful bundled software.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by plaguuuuuu on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @05:44PM (#16540682)
if you manage their device there's a great chance they have no fucking idea what they're doing and could easily have installed it unintentionally
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by v0x on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @11:31PM (#16542287)
McAfee comes packaged in the installation of some other software, e.g., Java, where it can easily be installed by mistake if you aren't paying attention.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by smt88 on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:57PM (#16539823)
I've met a lot of people outside HN who believe FB is listening to their conversations through the mic. I haven't yet met one who has stopped using it as a result.

I think you wildly overestimate how angry users get about privacy violations. For examples, Target, Yahoo, Home Depot, and Equifax have not been screamed into rubble.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by pnutjam on Thursday March 08, 2018 @11:03AM (#16545153)
Many of them haven't stopped using facebook, but many have uninstalled the app.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by fjsolwmv on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:07PM (#16541436)
To be fair, people who believe that are not bright bulbs. They fail at very simple statistical analysis and conspiracy theory testing.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by Simon_says on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:23PM (#16541517)
To be fair, almost everybody fails at statistical analysis, even scientists whose work depends on it.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by dvfjsdhgfv on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:05PM (#16539880)
Uber broke almost every moral rule and still everybody's using it.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by schaefer on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:25PM (#16540042)
I refuse to ever install the Uber app, specifically because of their conduct.

So not literally everyone... but still many.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by yorby on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:38PM (#16541583)
I can see someone having to install the uber app... but having to install the facebook app? just use the web app... that might be possible with uber too but I'm not sure because I don't use uber
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by icebraining on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:17AM (#16543290)
m.uber.com works fine without installing anything.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by CaptainZapp on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:36AM (#16543352)
The Uber app was "helpfully" pre-installed by Microsoft on my Lumia 950.

It was the second to go, just after Facebook.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by falcolas on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:09PM (#16539917)
> being caught red handed would be devastating from a public opinion perspective

For what it's worth, this public opinion backlash has not appeared with other companies: "Of course we're not working on leaked project [x]". "Look at project [x] we're working on!"

Even Facebook's own under-disclosed psychological experiments have been largely forgotten; Facebook has suffered few if any long-term ill effects from it.

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by fjsolwmv on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:06PM (#16541427)
The psychological experiments scandal was a nothingburger from the start. Facebook is not an academic research institution. They already operate with user's consent. Every business that engages in advertising or product design is performing psychological experiments.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by z3t4 on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @05:31PM (#16540593)
Their customers love it, and with customers I mean advertisers. For users to leave there must be somewhere to leave to. And there needs to be another business model that does not depend on marketing. Maybe selling actual hardware, with built in social media.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by numbsafari on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:52PM (#16539775)
What makes you think that user trust isn’t one of the things they’re willing to break in order to move fast?
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by jimjimjim on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:50PM (#16539756)
in the current climate, getting caught doing anything just means you have to slime your way out of it, rename/rebadge the activity and then carry on when the attention goes somewhere else.

is uber still the most hated company or has the magnifying glass moved onto somewhere else?

Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by yAnonymous on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:36AM (#16543350)
How much worse would being caught lying be compared to straight up admitting it? I'd say it's worth the risk for them.
Re:Facebook Really Is Spying on You, Just Not Through Your P... by Spooky23 on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @06:10PM (#16540849)
Hubris is powerful. Look at the dumb behavior exhibited by Uber as an example.