Maybe this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anecdotally, I and others I know have formed deep, meaningful relationships with people online. I think the hardest part of that is finding small communities - i.e, it's hard to make meaningful connections in a sub-reddit filled with 100,000 people, but in niche forums and chatrooms, with userbases in the dozens, I think it's much more feasible.
Sorry if I sound rude...I don't intend it. It's just so hard to hear the same "just get a hobby" or "just make friends online" or "you must just be doing it wrong since it works for me" stuff repeatedly. If it were something that worked for me I'd be doing it because this life is pure misery for me from most all angles.
I have found it enlightening to try to view fiscal and relational matters with the lens of the other. Imagine if I made a post telling a poor individual that they should "just go learn some job skills", "learn to code", or "they must be doing it wrong because I've found it easy to get a decent job". Such a post would be viewed as profane. Being a libertarian on fiscal matters gets me labeled as heartless, yet I find libertarian is the best approximate description of the system everyone operates on with regards to relational matters. I've heard many people describe the libertarian approach to helping others as "I've got mine, F you", which is the way I feel treated as a 'socially poor' person. To even bring up the topic of relationship resources/needs being unequal has gotten me some very negative labels in other online communities.
WELL THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!
I'm a latecomer to two of those three things, but they're tremendous specs for shut-ins! Due to tons of moving, the most and best friends I've ever had have been people online, so maybe my psyche is too warped to feel the lack of physical interaction. In fact, I think the real world is a terrible place[0], and my ability to express myself is much greater here. But online social life is much like real life social life; friends come and go, enemies are eternal, and, if you don't try to meet new people, making new connections becomes harder. Enter programming and nerd stuff. I've become more disconnected from my online friends, most of them non-technical, as I sank deeper in an online introversion of stuff they can't relate to like makefiles and Linux. I've become less interested in things that aren't those things, eroding our common ground. I can't even hold conversations anymore unless they're about how awful Gnome 3 is! Conversely, contact with the VERY FEW nerdy friends I've had and still find is higher than ever, but that's a small crowd. And they can't like me that much because most of them are smarter than me, so all I do is leech them for knowledge, which is not how you build a healthy relationship, hesti -- it's gotta be a symmetric take AND give!
But they don't have to like me; I like them, and I'm locked in an eternal struggle of autism to feel several human emotions.
A lot of people in Spain hang out by appearance, to show. Even a lot of people do this at bars to drink or have fake talks about soccer so they are not seed as nerds/freaks.
There is a lot of hypocrisy in society.
I would like to be more North-European: just hang out by pleasure, not from habit doing it meaningless.
That, to no surprise, doesn't work for me with love relationships of course. My (now) wife and I had a long distance relationship and it was very, very difficult. Unlike the online communities, it was a struggle more than fulfilling - it left me longing for more, etc.
Gardening or photography is a hobby you can start yourself with almost no cost and health isn't a real barrier. If there is no club, you could start one. Or maybe join the mall walking club which may also help with your physical health. There is something out there for you. You're worth it so put forth the effort. The return will surprise you.
I really wish people would not do the "you have to work at it and it's worth it" thing as if someone in my position is lazy or doesn't want to have a better life. They keep throwing out things they think are so simple and obvious but can't seem to accept there are real, practical reasons certain things won't work. In addition you can't force someone to like something they simply don't just because it's "available". Please believe me that none of this is my lack of effort or attitude. Nobody would choose this life if there was a realistic way out but many people live like this. I do the best I can but it's crushing.
I also have some permanent health issues (not as serious as yours probably, but still) and I totally get the frustration of people applying wishful thinking to your situation without having any experience with the kinds of problems you're facing (as is happening in this thread).
I know it's not what you asked for, but feel free to drop me a line anytime if you need to talk to someone who has at least a slight chance of getting it. I can be reached on gmail under the same username.
If you have no in-person interaction that you know you need, are you just never going to go find it? Where do other people get it in your area? Church, probably, since you're rural. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you aren't interested in religion, absolutely hate where you're at, and probably the people, too, but I beg you to call local churches until you find one that can help you attend and where you feel welcomed.
Yes, I get that a lot too, and it makes me more depressed. If you're someone who's in the process of extricating themselves from a religious upbringing, this isn't a fun thing to deal with in addition to "regular" mental health issues.
What is helping me is:
* removing toxic parts of my life as much as I can.
* proper diagnosis and medication (the revelation of a late ADHD-Inattentive diagnosis is life-changing)
* meditation (Kabat-Zinn style mindfulness, warning that in my experience not being treated or missing your meds for anxiety/depression may make this a frustration engine)
* forgiving myself for not being more proactive (the hardest one)
* focusing on getting my son out to play with other kids (helps meet people with the same time-schedules)
What doesn't help me:
* Not taking my meds.
* Making extravagant plans. (Big things are more intimidating and generate avoidance).
* Cursing the past. (Mistakes were made)
* Going to church. (Attending a ritual gathering as a nonbeliever can be an incredibly isolating experience.)
Admittedly, the largest Fraternities have religious components themselves (the Freemasons, especially), and Churches themselves at times have fought the big Fraternities as "competition", but arguably the big Fraternities are kept separate and distinct from Churches for strong reasons, and tend to sway more secular with the biggest religious ties being calls to charitable service.
I've often wondered if it was possibly past time for a revival of the Oddfellows in America, which at one point was a huge entirely secular Fraternity (whose biggest remaining impact is a lot of fascinating 1900s-ish architecture in most major American cities): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Odd_Fello...
There's also a lot of interesting similarities to classic Fraternities/Unions/Social Clubs reflected in cosplay/fandom Unions and Social Clubs such as the multiple Starfleet Fleets (including Barfleet), the 501st, the Ghostbusters Locals, etc. Admittedly fandom/cosplay can be their own religion of a sort, but such things are extremely secular.
When I was lonely and isolated (less then you), arguing on the Internet helped. It is not same as real communication and friends, but it more then nothing. Keeps you from loosing it entirely. Writing is communication too, altrough less effective.
Another weird thing was that when I finely had chance to communicate, it was tiring because I basically forgot how to do it. If that happens to you too, that is ok and normal. Don't get discouraged when talk won't go smoothy (as I did).
I wish you good luck, that something around you shows up.
Sometimes it's better to listen than explain.
I explain it like this: if you're "normal," for lack of a better word, interacting with someone with major depression can feel like debugging a program that is currently in an undefined state. Nothing makes sense, and your rules for how a program should behave are irrelevant, because depression makes me think in ways that are completely bananas (both to you and me, oddly enough). But, you can't just restart the process, so take your time understanding what's going on before acting; sometimes, action is not the right course at all.
I'm not trying to pick on you. I just see this a lot on HN when someone brings up major disorders -- "just work out! just garden! just be happy!" -- and it's troublesome in general, not just you.
OP is reaching out for compassion but with such a tiny social net only internet strangers can help, and what else can they do but suggest their own life experiences? It sounds like OP has no family or friends to interact with let alone get help with tasks, so if he wants a good avenue of support then he should contact a local church asking for a ride to attend then get to know people there.
Also when you do meet others in bad situations that have overcome there is a strong survivor bias thing going on around them which leads to people being upset/confused when it doesnt work for you. You must simply be doing it wrong, right? People seem to often to get bothered/angry/offended with you if their advice doesn't work or isn't applicable. I understand the psychological root of this, but it's still disheartening and kills me when I see people feel like people like me simply don't want to be happy or have lives. I didn't post begging for a friend to cure my lonliness. I have far more pressing issues. I posted because it's relevant to my life and cant do much else atm.
You have mentioned church a couple of times and I am not ignoring it...I just don't know how to respond without offending you or someone else. It's just not my thing...I have tried it more than once. I don't want to debate or upset anyone. I probably worry too much about what others think of me...but it does make me feel worse to spread any bad feeling. I didn't downvote you either and always worry people will think I am giving them a "SCREW YOU WRONG" karma mark when I see their posts greyed. Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly.
I was fine with them until the graying out thing, which turned them into basically a demonstration of the power of silencing. All it takes is four people to consider your comment unworthy, and you might as well have not said anything at all; it's oddly futuristic, to use a safe adjective, that the more people who dislike your comment the more difficult it becomes to read. What if we applied that to other situations? Four people dislike what you're saying; please wear this mask that makes it difficult to hear your words. And now that you're wearing that mask, people are more likely to not like anything else you say and avoid your corner of the room. If you're really problematic, we have a safe space in another room, or we've developed technology that completely mutes you but it still sounds to you like you're talking. Enjoy the party!
If downvotes were intended for removing problematic discussion, that's one thing, but HN's position is that downvotes are fine for disagreement, too. So if you say something disagreeable, you are slowly filtered to irrelevance. The macro of that arrangement, which optimizes for discussion that the community will find acceptable and agreeable at the expense of contrarian thought or opinion, is apparently lost on everyone who I've discussed it with, so I've stopped bothering for the most part. Graying out of downvoted comments is honestly a symptom that contributes to perceptions of the valley, based on my conversations with people outside of this community -- I was present for a conversation about Thiel among midwest tech folks, and it was specifically brought up as cancerous to thought.
Good news is there are stylesheets that disable it. It isn't going anywhere, so if you feel like I do, adapt. That and showdead are useful.
Your problems-barring your physical issues-aren't unique; you need your community, you need hobbies, but you say "Been saying for ages I am gonna lay the story out here and hope for some miracle plan" as if someone else is going to tell you your story. How will your life be fixed unless you fix it?
And don't mistake my church suggestion for preaching religion. If your community has social events you could otherwise attend, go for it.
Think about this like if someone was talking about fiscal matters. If you had someone who worked their way into the middle class telling poor people helpful tips to do the same, what is the chance they are overlooking factors in their success that aren't easily replicated for others or which was more based on luck?
I grew up in the middle of rural nowhere where most my old classmates hold minimum wage jobs if they have jobs. I worked hard to get ahead, but I was also assisted by things outside of my control. Natural talents and lucky opportunities being the two largest ones. Socially it's the opposite.
For example, contacting a stranger to ask for a ride can be as difficult for someone as learning a new programming language. Some can do it with no difficulty, others have a major block. What happens when someone tries a new hobby and realizes they are still isolated, even from the community of others engaged in the same hobby?
Underlying a lot of this, be it for making friends or finding a career, is the issue of learned helplessness.
Out of interest, how are you stuck? (Obviously, feel free not to indulge me if you'd rather not discuss your situation with a well-wishing but uninformed stranger.)
I also encourage you to post part or all of your story tomomrrow. I look forward to reading it.
I'm sure you've figured out that it's really hard to offer helpful advice to someone when you don't know their situation, which is something that keeps coming up here.
Post away, I'm looking forward to reading it in the hope that I may be able to offer some help.
While I doubt anyone is going to summon some kind of miracle plan, I think there are lots of people here who'd be eager to read your story and try to help. So yeah... if you're up for sharing, please say when you're ready.
I am not sure how to set emails public, I can't see your email, you can contact me at [email protected], I am not offended if you don't want to connect so don't worry about me.
A: No thank you. I'm an atheist who is just here for the social interaction and community.
How does this end well?
A: No, thanks.
will go over a lot better.
Its been my experience that most people who are devout enough to go to church are exactly the "convert or leave" type. Church is a very tribal place.
Not to mention that the type of people who want to spend their time doing church activities are people I find horrifically boring and have ZERO common ground with. May be less so if you're male.
I'm afraid I'm tempted to dismiss this as anecdote. This is one personal experience. That seems quite personal. That seems far more family-related than church-related.
> Its been my experience that most people who are devout enough to go to church are exactly the "convert or leave" type. Church is a very tribal place.
Not around here. Feels weird to "defend" it, I can't even remember when I actually last attended a service.
> Not to mention that the type of people who want to spend their time doing church activities are people I find horrifically boring and have ZERO common ground with.
Can we agree on the fact this has nothing to do with the initial controversy that churches would be unwelcoming to atheists? This only describes atheists' (well, yours, but you seem to intend to represent a global viewpoint) likely aversion to churches.
> May be less so if you're male.
I wish we didn't live in a world where this came up so often, but ok, now I'm this deep in the debate I will bite: what's this got to do with anything? Personal/local trivia or something deeper?
A "remote social life" is not even close to the same thing and chats online or the phone with "disposable friends" and strangers who have a clear and easy disconnect from your real life don't fill the hole a lack of enduring, present human contact leaves and usually take precious energy with no real benefit. Even though I am an extremely introverted person by most standards I still need social connection to thrive and have felt the best living in big cites with lots of options but I can't find a way back.