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Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by ekidd on Saturday February 24, 2018 @02:43PM (#16454902)
I'm deeply skeptical of any explanation that claims that we have both a "shortage of labor" and "downward pressure on wages":

> If men and women from the ages 25 to 54 took part in the labor market... [t]hat would be more fuel for the U.S. economy and a bigger source of workers for businesses crying out about a shortage of labor...

> Trade with China flooded the U.S. with cheap imports, forced domestic firms to shift operations overseas and put downward pressure on wages of less-skilled Americans.

There's an obvious capitalistic answer to this problem: If you're "crying out" for labor, then you may need to offer more money. This will encourage more people to work, or to acquire the skills you want—look at all those coding bootcamps, for example.

Claiming that there's a labor shortage and downward pressure on wages is an extraordinary claim, and it requires a detailed explanation. Otherwise, the obvious assumption is that somebody wants specialized skills for below-market prices. If markets are good at one thing, it's adjusting prices to balance supply and demand.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by jordanb on Saturday February 24, 2018 @02:54PM (#16454987)
One way to look at it is there is a ceiling on American wages imposed by globalization. Above that ceiling you're better off going overseas. But that ceiling is below the market-clearing price of labor in the us.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by Retric on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:25PM (#16455190)
That does not work.

If you can substitute foreign labor then there is no shortage. If you can't substitute foreign labor then it's irrelevant.

You can't have a shortage of workers and falling wages. You can have uncompetitive US companies, but they are very profitable so the only thing left is irrational behavior.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by eli_gottlieb on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:36PM (#16455561)
>You can't have a shortage of workers and falling wages. You can have uncompetitive US companies, but they are very profitable so the only thing left is irrational behavior.

Or insufficient capital investment and bad management holding down productivity. You can't pay a worker more than their productivity, but if the best you can get out of them is too little, it may not be worth their while. You could then plausibly see a shortage of workers, wage suppression, and stagnant productivity statistics at the same time.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by Retric on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:38PM (#16456160)
You are describing insufficient demand, not insufficient workers. The reasons for low demand are more or less irrelevant to worker pay, just that demand is low.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by dozzie on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:59PM (#16456243)
Yes, there are many curious effects and phenomena once we dispense with this silly expectation of business being sustainable.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by Godel_unicode on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:17PM (#16455465)
I think"can but really don't want to" would explain part of it. What do people do when presented with a workable but unappealing solution? They complain a lot and then grudgingly do it.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by walshemj on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:50PM (#16455627)
If the workers are scared of a recession and losing their jobs you can.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by lkrubner on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:18PM (#16456344)
No, a "ceiling on American wages" theory would only make sense if globalization was removing jobs from the USA, in which case you would not have a labor shortage. It would be reasonable to say "Foreign competition has stolen jobs from Americans, therefore the unemployment rate is high, therefore there is a ceiling on American wages via globalization."

But that can not be reconciled to "labor shortage".

A more fruitful line of research focuses on the growing power of monopoly, and the collapse of new business formation in the USA. Why don't companies with huge profits reinvest their profits? Why are most of the tech giants sitting on piles of cash? Monopoly could explain that, and would also explain a limit on wages that otherwise seems to defy market sense.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by madaxe_again on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:52PM (#16455337)
Indeed. One other factor which the study does not touch upon but I do wonder about - burnout - essentially "poor employment conditions".

One thing which has substantially changed between '99 and now is employer expectation of availability. In '99, you may have worked 9-6, but when you left the office, you left the office. Sure, some tech folks, some traders, etc. may have had pagers back then - but now, the mobile phone is ubiquitous, and the universal expectation is that you are available and ready to work, even if it's 4am on Sunday and you got married yesterday.

It's purely anecdotal, but I am "in my prime", and have opted out of being a productive member of society for now, as being broke beats being broken. I'm not alone in this - in the past 18 months of peripateticism, I've met many others, mostly tech folks, in the same boat.

Bluntly, market price isn't enough to completely sacrifice any semblance of an existence outside of work.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by orangecat on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:18PM (#16455467)
the universal expectation is that you are available and ready to work

Maybe among Silicon Valley startups. That has absolutely not been the case at any of my jobs at companies ranging from 5 to tens of thousands of employees.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by user5994461 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @05:15PM (#16455756)
It's the same in every company. Things need to run 24/7 and there are never enough people to take care of it.

There will always be some suckers who are pushed to work overnight and week end.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by actsasbuffoon on Sunday February 25, 2018 @08:32AM (#16458852)
That sounds like bad management. There are companies where you can work your 40 hours, unplug when you go home, and still get a good salary.

Companies with poor working conditions usually suffer from poor management, which causes burnout and high turnover. The problem is that poor management is so common that many people think burnout and high turnover are normal.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by badpun on Sunday February 25, 2018 @11:44AM (#16459732)
My company has people hired (production assurance) especially for this. Being on call is part of their job description. I suspect it's a common arrangement.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by user5994461 on Monday February 26, 2018 @06:11PM (#16469849)
Anyone who is skilled enough to do that could get a better job that pays more and doesn't require to work on call.

Employees tend to leave the job or the workforce altogether. The ones who did not yet are in short supply.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by DougN7 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:16PM (#16455457)
Honest question: how do you survive. I don’t feel like I’ve ever had the option to opt out, unless I wanted to move home with Mom. The opportunity might be different than it used to be.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by madaxe_again on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:46PM (#16455606)
I sold my equity back to the business when I left. It wasn't crazy money, but enough to tide me over while transitioning to self-suffiency - I'm now the proud owner of a shack and a few acres of halfway decent arable land in a remote corner of Uruguay. $25,000 outlay. Becoming a citizen and all that is easy here.

I know it's not an option open to everyone, and I'll be honest and say that a lot of the folks I've met have trod a similar path - startup, decade of unsustainable grind, total burnout, with maybe 0.1% of what we dreamed of to show for it.

I have however also met folks on the road who've thrown the towel in with no capital, who are finding ways of making it work - one couple even had two under-ten children, and were travelling, gigging, and educating their incredibly worldly and well informed kids, with a view to "maybe finding a ruin somewhere". It takes all sorts, but I think there are an increasing number of people "opting out".

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by badpun on Sunday February 25, 2018 @11:48AM (#16459758)
> I'm now the proud owner of a shack and a few acres of halfway decent arable land in a remote corner of Uruguay.

So you became a farmer? How's that working out?

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by madaxe_again on Sunday February 25, 2018 @06:11PM (#16461770)
It’s very early days, and it’s hard work, but it’s rewarding, and real, and people here talk to each other and help each other, even if you’re the mad gringo who can barely mumble his way through a conversation in Spanish.

I also wouldn’t call myself a farmer - rather a smallholder experimenting with permaculture. Cost of living here is low if you buy food from local markets, etc., so I’ve a few years to make it work before I end up totally broke.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by badpun on Monday February 26, 2018 @04:37AM (#16464173)
Interesting. From some accounts I've read on the Internet, there's a big risk in Latin America that the locals will just treat you as a gringo with a huge (for them) amounts of money, that they can extract out of you via overcosted services and goods - all the while being super-friendly. Maybe Urugway is not as poor as some of the other countries, so it's less of an issue.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by madaxe_again on Monday February 26, 2018 @01:18PM (#16467556)
Uruguay is really not like the rest of Latin America - I wouldn’t live in say, Argentina, Brazil, Chile or Paraguay for the exact reason you describe. Uruguayans view their neighbours with a mixture of astonishment and derision. Lots of political and economic exiles here too - it’s a nice little bastion of highly educated atheistic liberal democracy in the heart of South America.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by purplezooey on Saturday February 24, 2018 @11:06PM (#16457063)
So you had to learn Spanish :)
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by brightball on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:12PM (#16455110)
Think professions where reimbursement is controlled by an outside entity like insurance or Medicaid. Even with supply and demand you can’t pay more than those will make possible. Additionally, in many cases you’ll end up with people working and providing services before finding out that they won’t be paid for it.

That’s just off the cuff though.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by ComputerGuru on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:15PM (#16455133)
That only applies to companies accepting only (or virtually only) government health insurance, of which there are either few or none. In reality, it’s part of the reason treatment is so expensive. They charge private entities a lot more to make up for the government mandated rates. The law is that you can’t charge the government more than anyone else.

And this is after we swore we would never let another Rwanda or another Serbia happen.

Actually, this raises a very interesting point to parallel the author’s. By the same logic, a pacifist society must be willing to go to war to protect that pacifism.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by pjc50 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:41PM (#16455274)
> And this is after we swore we would never let another Rwanda or another Serbia happen.

What on earth does this have to do with health insurance?

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by ComputerGuru on Saturday February 24, 2018 @10:41PM (#16456982)
I’m sorry, I was editing another reply in a tab on my iPhone and something went wrong.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by DanBC on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:47PM (#16455307)
US healthcare spending is almost equally split between government and private insurance.

US government spends more per capita on healthcare than eg UK government, and doesn't have universal coverage and has worse results across a range of indicators.

https://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-co...

US tax-payers are subsidising the US's terrible healthcare.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by CryptoPunk on Sunday February 25, 2018 @01:47PM (#16460429)
The US has the best cancer and heart disease survival rates in the world. But spending levels are still not commensurate with indicators.

One possible explanation is that a lot of money is spent on healthcare toward the end of life, and much of it is just chasing a sliver of hope. In a system where people spend according to their priorities, instead of to improve some statistical indicator of system-wide efficacy, 'irrational' spending like this could be much higher in the US.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by echevil on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:53PM (#16455641)
It's not an extraordinary claim at all as these two events co-exist: Too few people have skills that companies need; too many people having no skills or irrelevant skills are looking for jobs.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by SeanBoocock on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:09PM (#16455090)
I would think then that companies who are understaffed because they cannot hire people with the specialized skills they need would lose out in the long run to competitors who are willing to pay market/above-market wages for talent. Anecdotally that doesn't seem to have been happening.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by WalterSear on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:40PM (#16455268)
There is no long run.

The landscape is changing so fast that any competitive advantage that unfolds over multiple years, such as treating your employees well, fostering junior developers etc, doesn't have much of an effect. There's too much chaos and reinvention going on.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by PatchMonkey on Monday February 26, 2018 @12:24PM (#16467009)
Or, we have too many people for the jobs that are hiring Americans. That pretty well explains both.

Trump would be right to constrict access to H1B1 visas for foreign workers in the US, in this case.

But we also have a problem of access to those coding bootcamps - everyone has a smartphone, not everyone has a modern desktop/laptop. As far as coding bootcamps, there's also this: https://medium.com/@melissamcewen/who-killed-the-junior-deve...

The same in the field of law: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/opinion/too-many-law-stud...

Here's what employers are saying: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/03/28/surveys-find...

But a realistic explanation? Monopsony: too few employers competing for workers with any given skill set. https://slate.com/business/2018/01/after-all-the-talk-about-...

Monopsony is getting some attention: https://www.thenation.com/article/does-monopoly-power-explai...

And here: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/ask-the-headhunter/ask-...

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by thaumaturgy on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:18PM (#16455156)
There was a much better article posted to HN not long ago that did a deeper dive into what's going on: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/02/19/technological-unemploy...

The overall conclusion was that automation (and, we can assume, globalization) was essentially digging away at "middle-skilled" jobs, like manufacturing. These are jobs where employees must invest a certain amount of time and training to be paid well, and then they find that their entire industry is drying up. They are faced with a few choices, and many of those lead towards a less attractive, lower-paying job than they had before.

With a social safety net, many are simply exiting the job market and relying on disability or other means to get by rather than take a crap job at crap wages.

Although the age group here is different, a lot of the same forces are likely at play. US employers do not see labor as an investment, and haven't for a long time (if ever); they are generally unwilling to hire lower-skilled employees and invest in training them. Instead, they cry constantly that there isn't a large enough pool of skilled labor to draw from (and in the tech sector, this is why they think they need lots of H-1Bs).

Meanwhile, potential employees are faced with a market where, if they work very hard and teach themselves some skill at their own cost, they might be able to get a job working for an employer who will pay them as little as they can get away with paying them (the wage pressure), and potentially also having to pay off student loans. Alternatively, they can forego this rat race and get some middle-skill job -- something between food service and senior software developer -- and make enough to get by, and with less debt, and spend whatever extra money they've got left over on cheap entertainment.

They certainly aren't going to be able to afford a house on their wages, that hasn't been possible since the 60s.

This is a complex issue with manifold causes and effects and, as the article I linked points out, nobody seems to have a solid handle on all of it yet. There's lots of ideology but not clear enough data yet.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by Chyzwar on Sunday February 25, 2018 @05:48PM (#16461671)
My uncle immigrant living in the US, working as a cleaner, very poor English (bad hearing) and his wife managed to get a terraced house in a decent area of Chicago.

When I see teenagers with iPhones and their parents buying Tesla cars I can see why they will never afford a house. Average American is unable to save money, most overspend. Combine this with poor education and unwillingness to learn or relocate.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by 8ytecoder on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:53PM (#16455338)
There's a related problem. No company wants to be the first to raise wages either because their margin is already thin or they don't yet have faith in the economy to dive head first. Usually the latter. A lot about the economy is sentiment. When sentiment improves, companies will invest more in labor as well as other improvements. Until then they wouldn't want to look a fool.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by kmonsen on Saturday February 24, 2018 @02:52PM (#16454965)
We see this all the time in tech, cannot find people is usually cannot find people with the skills and experience we want for the price we are willing to pay. This will always be true if you offer less than the current market rate which startups seems to think they are entitled to.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by psyc on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:42PM (#16455280)
What I've seen in tech is the idea that literally any number of false negatives is worth avoiding a single bad hire. It's fine to claim that trade-off is worth it to you, but it's ludicrous to simultaneously claim there's a shortage of talent. That's just a shortage of risk-free opportunity. Hey, I suffer from a shortage of risk-free opportunities too.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by throwaway65536 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:53PM (#16455339)
In this age of ghosting people, it seems like everybody is just eyeing everyone else for a reason to stop talking to them or pull the trigger on the block button. We used to be socially-integrated enough to put up with people's foibles and correct them until we are all within a liveable range. Now you cannot confront or give feedback without it blowing up into hyperbole.

I have been openly asked about my politics at an interview for a Y Combinator startup (Starsky Robotics). "We need to make sure you are not a horrible person." One of my references later told me that the co-founder was on the phone almost 20 minutes asking probing questions about me. No offer, no feedback. Who stands a chance with that level of scrutiny?

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by psyc on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:02PM (#16455380)
This hasn’t happened to me yet, but now it has a place in my thoughts, whereas 10 years ago I had no inkling of the possibility whatsoever.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by mcguire on Saturday February 24, 2018 @05:54PM (#16455952)
That would be an actionable question, no?
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by throwaway65536 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:41PM (#16456172)
I would rather spend time succeeding on my own merits.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by hycaria on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:19PM (#16455469)
Well considering y combinator is not empty every year, there must be people who have a chance with that level of scrutiny.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by eli_gottlieb on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:31PM (#16455535)
And we have a word for those people: milquetoast. I'm not sure people would hire me after asking about my politics for 20 minutes. What, you're gonna employ someone after getting an earful about Marx and Bookchin?
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by bittercynic on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:28PM (#16456119)
Is it possible the political questions are really a test to see if you have the good sense to avoid bringing controversial politics to work? Maybe they were looking for something along the lines of "Political opinions will differ. I'm more interested in being part of a productive team than having my politics validated."
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by themarkn on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:44PM (#16456188)
People are so complicated that most "tests" like this, to see how somebody responds, strike me as useless. You are not in a controlled environment, and pretending you are is foolish. You might get a reaction and presume to know the cause, but it's hard to be sure. Maybe somebody reacts badly to a strong signal that the interviewer doesn't know how to be appropriate and professoonal in an interview.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by bittercynic on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:07PM (#16456284)
Strongly agree with your statement, but I still think it is understandable for interviewers to want to know how their interviewee will react in situations that can easily lead to big conflicts. If you reflexively act in a way that escalates in stressful situations, that's useful information in a hiring decision.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by psyc on Saturday February 24, 2018 @08:55PM (#16456677)
I hope people can understand the difference between getting a feel for someone's temperament, vs. getting a feel for their political opinions. I highly doubt that the situation in question was the former and not the latter.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by bittercynic on Saturday February 24, 2018 @09:21PM (#16456763)
Crucial difference. Only meant to suggest that there is some possibility that the question was probing at temperament. Asking about politics might be used as a method of checking how easy it is to anger someone, since it is a topic that causes many to control of their emotions.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by psyc on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:57PM (#16456230)
It doesn't really matter. It's very inappropriate. What you're describing is sometimes called a "shit test". A disingenuous request intended to draw out a response to be judged. This has no place in an interview.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by eli_gottlieb on Saturday February 24, 2018 @09:58PM (#16456877)
I have the good sense to avoid working with people who are playing mind games with me.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by dlwdlw on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:39PM (#16456426)
I've found that wherever you go there will be people you need to work with that don't live up to your own expectations and it's tempting to dehumanize them as stupid.

However since this is the case everywhere I think it's better to think about ways to mitigate this problem than try to solve it via some sort of gatekeeping. Even Google with their rigorous process has this problem.

Personally I think the inability to fire-fast because of lack of a social safety net is a core part of the problem.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by sjg007 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:24PM (#16456367)
Yeah and it's a stupid idea. The problem is that the startup "idea" is probably not good enough. A company succeeds despite itself as there is no such thing as perfect execution. With a 1 year cliff you have plenty of time to figure out if someone isn't "bringing value".
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by eli_gottlieb on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:30PM (#16455528)
I always hear people claiming tech is full of over-inflated salaries, then look at jobs in my area and see that people want a web-dev with 3-5 years of experience in specific frameworks and offer to pay about $82k/year.

Yeah ok guys, that's pretty inflated, innit /s?

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by walshemj on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:49PM (#16455618)
I have in the UK seen a job add in an agency for an experienced php developer at £27k next to it was for a senior "ground worker" for > £35k.

A ground worker is the PC term what's known in civil engineering as a "navvy"

Oh and the ground worker would get OT

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by sjg007 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:28PM (#16456386)
You're going to have to translate what a navvy or ground worker is for us yanks.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by walshemj on Saturday February 24, 2018 @08:03PM (#16456498)
It's guy who digs a hole in the ground for civil engineering projects.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by mcguire on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:07PM (#16456017)
The median personal income in the US is $31-35k. The median household income was $59k last year.

What exactly are the requirements for a "web developer" with 3-5 years experience? More or less than a registered nurse with 3-5 years experience (~$60k)?

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by maxsilver on Saturday February 24, 2018 @06:26PM (#16456111)
Except nursing is experiencing a major shortage too - https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/02/nursing-s... So if anything, the low wages for nurses just just further supports the parent comment -- wages are too low.

If you want to fill a shortage, you need to start by raising wages substantially. If for no other reason than to at least allow new students some hope of ever repaying the always-increasing college costs required to enter these fields.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by eli_gottlieb on Saturday February 24, 2018 @10:00PM (#16456882)
Look, I'm not evaluating their virtue as human beings or their contributions to society. I'm saying that in a functioning market economy, prices/wages reflect an informed estimate of the balance between supply and demand. If you're telling people stories of a shortage and sky-high prices, then offering to buy for well below "sky-high", well, you're lying to someone, and let's just hope it's yourself.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by sjg007 on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:27PM (#16456378)
RNs make 100k easy in any mid city market.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by whereismypwd on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:14PM (#16455128)
I saw an ad here a few days ago on HN for a "Lead ML Researcher" for $85-100k + 0.5-2%.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by PunchTornado on Saturday February 24, 2018 @05:36PM (#16455862)
Exactly the point. And then people complain about labour shortages in ML.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by mixmastamyk on Saturday February 24, 2018 @05:44PM (#16455899)
Often skills that could be learned in a week by an experienced practitioner, but we refuse to let you learn them on the job! Even if you'll be at the job for years. Rather wait a year instead for a unicorn to show.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by ghthor on Sunday February 25, 2018 @04:22PM (#16461230)
This is pretty much why I won't give anywhere near 100% at a company that treats me or my co-workers like that.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by icelancer on Saturday February 24, 2018 @03:27PM (#16455201)
>> current market rate

Many of the new positions being created in startups have no defined market rate, which causes more malinvestment (overpaying workers who don't produce well enough) or shortage of labor due to insufficient perceived compensation.

Businesses will almost always err on the side of shortage of labor and keeping costs down when they can (though you could argue otherwise in the current ridiculous VC-backed industry), so this will always be a "problem" in the market.

Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by walshemj on Saturday February 24, 2018 @04:44PM (#16455600)
Depends governments like to fiddle unemployment figures under reporting that actual unemployment rate.
Re:Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working by shullbitt0r on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:10PM (#16476796)
catch 22; you need workers to make money, but you need money to make workers.