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Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by mandelken on Thursday February 01, 2018 @05:49AM (#16280903)
Taxi's don't scale in an urban environment. Their use is exactly for night or irregular use. Go to Mumbai, Jakarta, or any low income country and you'll find yourself stuck for hours in a cheap taxi. We need regulation because the market will not build railroads and metro's.

"A developed country is not where the poor drive a car, but where the rich take public transportation". Visit and compare Switzerland with Egypt/India/... and you'll see.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by jpatokal on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:06AM (#16280981)
This argument seems like a non-sequitur. Helsinki already has a well-developed public transport system, particularly considering its size, and nobody's about to abandon it and switch to taxis, regulated or not. Jakarta and Mumbai have crappy public transport because of a toxic mix of poverty and incompetent governance, and in both taxis are a luxury for the richest of the rich.

I always figured the primary point of taxi regulation in Finland was to ensure that the service would be available even in remote areas that couldn't otherwise sustain it -- but Uber makes it far easier to service those as well.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by qplex on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:54PM (#16285262)
The overall quality of the taxi service _will_ go down with the price cuts. There isn't any way around this.

It was obvious already when Uber was testing their service in Helsinki without adhering to any of the legal requirements.

But it's not just Uber - many other taxi companies operate in Finland already with comparable smartphone apps etc. And they also manage to do it without breaking the law ...

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by tinus_hn on Sunday February 04, 2018 @07:53AM (#16302543)
Monopolies are hardly a recipe for quality service.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by mattmanser on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:49AM (#16281472)
I disagree, from experience. I live in an urban environment in the UK with extensive public transport and haven't had a car for the last 5 years.

I have friends and family who live in the 'burbs. There are plenty of times I take a taxi over public transport, including:

    1. I'm in a rush
    2. I need to transport something not small
    3. I'm feeling lazy
Note, that all public transport suffers from some fundamental problems (at the moment[1]). I live in the south of the city. For anywhere I want to travel to in the north I have to walk 10 minutes to get to the bus stop. In certain hours buses get out of sync with their timetables, so you can add another 10/15 minutes of waiting.

Also a lot of public transport has moved to the "hub" model, where you have a central hub which connects different routes. While perhaps more efficient in some ways, it's incredibly inefficient for the traveller. It adds a minimum of 20 minutes to any journey where you have to go through a hub. My sister used to joke it takes an hour and 20 minutes to visit a friend living on a different tube line in London. My home town is either 3 lines switches away, adding an hour and a half of waiting to a journey, or I go through the London Hub, inexplicably having to pay a premium.

So while I like and appreciate our public transport, it can be a huge timesink and when you don't want to pay the "time tax" of public transport, taxis fill the role.

[1]I say at the moment as we can imagine a point in the future where you request public transport with your phone and it can on-the-fly accommodate you.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by dagw on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:16AM (#16281956)
So while I like and appreciate our public transport, it can be a huge timesink and when you don't want to pay the "time tax" of public transport, taxis fill the role.

Last time I was in London for work I naively hopped in a Taxi at Paddington Station because I was late for a meeting and the tube would take 30 minutes. The taxi took 35 minutes and cost an order of magnitude more.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by geezerjay on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:36PM (#16284429)
> The taxi took 35 minutes and cost an order of magnitude more.

It seems that the moral of that story is that people should avoid travelling by car in places where roadways are congestioned.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by mattmanser on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:52AM (#16282187)
Well, yeah, it depends on the town and the time. Here in Notts the buses have lots of dedicated lanes, so in rush hour it can be better to take a bus than a taxi.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by gooseserbus on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:05AM (#16282299)
Taxis* can drive in bus lanes

*Not private hire vehicles, which are not legally considered taxis.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by xya3453 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:11AM (#16281926)
Taxis are only quick in the UK because everyone else is using public transport.

In any undeveloped capital you're forced to use a taxi (or unregulated alternative) to travel any significant distance. Getting anywhere can take hours (travelling at 5km/h is common), is dangerous and uncomfortable (AC is not even ubiquitous in 40c heat).

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by tuukkah on Thursday February 01, 2018 @11:17AM (#16282995)
This taxi deregulation is just a part of wider transport deregulation in Finland. The aim is at Mobility-as-a-Service startups to provide novel apps that integrate taxis, public transport as well as new services like Uber Pool into a seamless and efficient transport network.

For example, all public transport in Finland will be required to provide a ticket sales API for these new apps. The app can sell you a trip from A to B and fulfill by ordering a taxi to the railway station plus a train ticket to your destination. Here's the press release for an open API from Helsinki Regional Transport Authority HSL: https://www.hsl.fi/en/news/2017/hsl-launch-worlds-first-publ...

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by nitwit005 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:36PM (#16286983)
> Taxi's don't scale in an urban environment.

You mean, cars don't scale in an urban environment.

The limits on the number of taxis is typically to force up the cost so the taxi drivers could make more, not to improve traffic.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by fulafel on Friday February 02, 2018 @12:50AM (#16288693)
Cars don't scale outside urban areas either: Widespread daily private car use is not environmentally sustainable even with EVs, which still have about 50% of the lifetime CO2 footprint of fossil cars.

Taxis have the advantage that you can use them very sporadically, so they're a good solution for a world with less cars.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by golergka on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:11AM (#16282333)
> Their use is exactly for night or irregular use

I have exactly the opposite experience. Although public transport here is pretty good (by US standards, anyway - especially the subway system), I usually take the taxi. After all the apps appeared and started to compete with one another, it became extremely cheap (usual ride is about $3, expensive one is $6-7), clean and convenient.

And on top of it, taxis can use public transport lanes - so the traffic isn't that much of an issue.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by TomMarius on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:36AM (#16281098)
The market would build railroads and metros given the chance.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by Reason077 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:34AM (#16281388)
Building a metro requires enormous investment, with a huge but very long-term payback. Most of that return is not direct in the form of ticket revenues, but externalised in the form of economic growth along the metro routes, as well as environmental and social benefits.

Even where you have private companies building and operating metros, it's usually with the direction and financial support (such as land grants and loan guarantees) from governments.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by geezerjay on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:46PM (#16284500)
> Building a metro requires enormous investment, with a huge but very long-term payback

Actually that's far from the truth. Any form of railway transport, with some notable exceptions like some french TGV lines, are absurd money sinks. The value of railway services in particular but public transportation systems in genetal manifest themselves mainly as externalities.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by Reason077 on Friday February 02, 2018 @04:36AM (#16289442)
Right. That's exactly what I wrote in my comment above.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by geezerjay on Saturday February 03, 2018 @02:51AM (#16296708)
You've stated that there is a payback. There isn't. It's a money sink, and the only way that such a project is justified is mainly by state funding (public service contracts, state-owned corporations, etc)
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by TomMarius on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:02AM (#16282274)
There is no need for the initiative to be for profit. People are perfectly capable of getting together and doing stuff - in much bigger scale than a metro.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by InitialLastName on Thursday February 01, 2018 @11:12AM (#16282950)
Yes, and when they do, we sometimes call it "government".
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by TomMarius on Thursday February 01, 2018 @12:17PM (#16283629)
Nope. No one is allowed to opt out and people are forced to pay even though they don't want to or straight up can't use it and/or don't agree with it.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by azemetre on Thursday February 01, 2018 @12:40PM (#16283834)
No one is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country.

The problem with your argument is you seem to want all the benefits for yourself with zero drawbacks. Society doesn't work like this and successful societies will never work like this.

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by geezerjay on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:50PM (#16284546)
> No one is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country.

That's a page taken out of the fascist dictatorship's playbook. If your position was remotely defendable I'm sure that the best argument you could come up wouldn't be a variant of "if you don'agree with me then let me expell you from where you were born".

Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by TomMarius on Friday February 02, 2018 @01:27AM (#16288811)
I don't want any of the "benefits" for the price they're forced to me. That's the whole point.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by oblio on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:40AM (#16281126)
The market did build those. Look up robber barons.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by Retric on Thursday February 01, 2018 @07:13AM (#16281286)
This was pre car, it's hard to find recent examples.
Re:Taxi deregulation coming to Finland by acompetency on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:54AM (#16282208)
We did have robber barons build one here, look up the länsimetro.