Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking relies on beta rhythms

Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by derefr on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:16PM (#16254192)

I wouldn't go so far as to say such an idea is on the level of homeopathy—scientist certainly do induce ("entrain") the brain to certain frequencies of operation using flashing lights. The general principle is sound.

But, I would emphasize, they usually do that by first genetically modifying the creature whose brain they want to manipulate to make some of its neurons into opto-couplers. They wouldn't be doing that if there was an easier way. :)

(It turns out that—even without the genetic modification—some frequencies of flashing light do cause the brain to do certain things. See, for example, https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/flashing-light-clears-tox.... But the effects of this, from what I understand, aren't the same effect you would get by actually getting the brain to entrain to that frequency; it's maybe entraining the pulse-rate of the brain's glymphatic channels or somesuch, but not synaptic firing.)

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by bitcurious on Sunday January 28, 2018 @03:17PM (#16253214)

This study of memory loss in mice found that exposing them to light at about 40hz triggered gamma waves and reduced plaque formation.

https://news.mit.edu/2016/visual-stimulation-treatment-alzhe...

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by delecti on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:27PM (#16254244)

We perceive visual stimuli as distinct events (up to a certain frequency), but when hearing, a 40 Hz sound isn't perceived as 40 individual sounds per second.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by cassianoleal on Monday January 29, 2018 @11:41AM (#16258521)

Perhaps because it isn't? Waves are not discrete structures. 40Hz means you have 40 wave cycles per second, not 40 discrete sounds.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by delecti on Monday January 29, 2018 @12:01PM (#16258713)

That's kinda what I'm getting at. My understanding is that brain waves are more akin to a CPU clock, with various processes being synchronized, than to a sound wave. If that's the case, then you wouldn't have any reason to expect sound to make a difference in your brain's clock rate, but you could reasonably expect light pulses to.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by tw1010 on Sunday January 28, 2018 @03:42PM (#16253343)

Dismissing it based on nothing more than a feeling, and no data, is just as irrational as homeopaths.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by tree_of_item on Sunday January 28, 2018 @03:57PM (#16253430)

No it isn't. You should default to disbelieving such extraordinary claims.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by colordrops on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:17PM (#16255096)

Who is the arbiter of whether something is "extraordinary"? You? Perhaps you should do some cursory investigation on published research before being so quick to judgement.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by tree_of_item on Monday January 29, 2018 @08:52AM (#16257456)

To be clear, we're talking about binaural beats. There's no such published research showing any kind of results. I haven't been "quick to judgement", binaural beats have been on the level of homeopathy for over 20 years now.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by tw1010 on Sunday January 28, 2018 @04:09PM (#16253505)

You should default to having no strong opinion at all.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by chc on Sunday January 28, 2018 @04:15PM (#16253554)

Skepticism due to insufficient evidence and lack of obvious plausibility isn't usually considered a strong opinion.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by colordrops on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:18PM (#16255098)

There is evidence though.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by chc on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:39PM (#16255174)

Whether or not there is evidence of this particular thing is irrelevant, because this subthread is about whether skepticism is just as irrational as blind belief when confronted with unsupported claims.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by dwaltrip on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:07PM (#16254148)

Better still, default to having a strong opinion only with good reason, and the capacity to quickly give it up when presented with a more compelling view.

And then of course... we shouldn't expect to be able to sum up highly effective heuristics for understanding the world in a single sentence.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by tree_of_item on Sunday January 28, 2018 @04:10PM (#16253518)

Turmeric added to coffee adds twenty years to your lifespan.

Are you completely ambivalent to such a ridiculous claim? No, you should disbelieve it unless you get a sufficient amount of evidence.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by taeric on Sunday January 28, 2018 @05:35PM (#16253997)

To be fair, science thrives on curiosity. I'd prefer we establish something was safe and have at the experiments.

So, disbelieve in part by trying to disprove. Win win.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by varjag on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:07PM (#16254147)

Science is not being advanced by disproving crackpots. It's a waste of precious resource better spent elsewhere.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by colordrops on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:18PM (#16255104)

What's your definition of a crackpot? Someone who researches something varjag has a negative emotion towards?

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by varjag on Monday January 29, 2018 @03:22AM (#16256149)

Someone who maintains something is true while lacking any evidence of that. There's an infinity of possible untrue statements, but only finite amount of research resource. Disproving every crackpot theory doesn't advance actual science one tiny bit.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by taeric on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:36PM (#16254278)

You'd be surprised. :)

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by varjag on Monday January 29, 2018 @03:23AM (#16256152)

Don't think I would.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by pizza on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:19PM (#16254457)

If that were the norm we'd have much shorter lifespans.

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by ekianjo on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:20PM (#16254462)

No, the absence of a proper mechanism is akin to homeopathy. Pointing the absence of a proper mechanism sounds like common sense.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by occams_chainsaw on Monday January 29, 2018 @03:44PM (#16260486)

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not on the skeptic.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by bsanderson on Sunday January 28, 2018 @03:27PM (#16253273)

Actually a thing...

Auditory Beat Stimulation and its Effects on Cognition and Mood States

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4428073/

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by chc on Sunday January 28, 2018 @04:08PM (#16253500)

The proposition "listening to music affects your mood" is very different from the proposition "listening to a certain frequency of tone causes your brain to produce waves at a corresponding frequency."

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by bsanderson on Sunday January 28, 2018 @05:02PM (#16253851)

Sure but who said anything about music? The word music doesn't appear in the original link or in any other comment on this page, or in the link I posted.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by chc on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:23PM (#16255124)

Unless you're denying that drummers are musicians, it's my impression that beats are a kind of music.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by prophesi on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:54PM (#16284590)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics)

If you count any sort of sound as "music", then sure.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by Dylan16807 on Sunday January 28, 2018 @08:04PM (#16254629)

Large amounts of sensory input with a certain rhythm affecting brain firing is known to happen; see seizures. And the idea has a pretty obvious mechanism. So your comparison is not fair at all.

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Re:Evidence that the brain’s ability to control thinking rel... by colordrops on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:15PM (#16255088)

Your statement is as lacking in evidence and reasoning as you suppose the one you are attacking is.

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