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Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by baron816 on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:51AM (#16184390)
What happens if the launch rocket fails? That’s been the main concern of sending nuclear reactors into space thus far, right? Has this been addressed here?
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by gh02t on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:05AM (#16184442)
It's not really a concern. U235 is basically radiologically inert, it doesn't become significantly radioactive until after the reactor has been running for a while. The concern with fission reactors in space is for stuff that might return to Earth after it's been in operation long enough to build up other isotopes that are radioactive and subsequently burning up in the atmosphere. For a vehicle that is on a one-way trip to Mars, and where the reactor will be brought online after it's out of Earth's orbit, this isn't a problem.

Edit: even on a round trip it wouldn't be a big deal, the reactor can just be jettisoned before re-entering Earth's gravity well. You just can't have a fission reactor with spent fuel anywhere near Earth orbit. Space reactors in general are pretty interesting, because the design criteria are so different from terrestrial power reactors.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by manmal on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:43AM (#16184724)
> the reactor can just be jettisoned before re-entering Earth‘s gravity well

I think if there’s one thing to be learned from previous missions, it’s that nothing will „just work“. If the ejection mechanism is damaged, or the spacecraft is hit by some object and rendered useless shortly before ejection, then the radioactive payload will make it to Earth. I think a roundtrip would be dangerous, and the core should be left at Mars.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by red75prime on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:26AM (#16184842)
The political fallout will probably be more dangerous than adding another kilowatt-class nuclear reactor to decaying megawatt-class ones on sunken submarines.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ahoka on Friday January 19, 2018 @04:57AM (#16185152)
This actually happened in the past. A Russian radar satellite failed to eject its nuclear reactor to a safe parking orbit and fell in Canada instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_954

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by mholmes680 on Friday January 19, 2018 @10:22AM (#16186845)
Never heard about this before, thanks for above link. Good link on Kosmos 954 recovery operation here: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/operation-morning-light-...
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by black_puppydog on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:11AM (#16184800)
in that case you could still divert the vehicle itself, assuming it's unmanned. My point is: yes, leaving it on mars is a pretty safe solution, but it's not the only one.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by mrfusion on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:56AM (#16186183)
Triple redundancy usually works really well. Fail safes are great too.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by lordelph on Friday January 19, 2018 @09:38AM (#16186475)
"Hal, perform the earth orbit insertion burn" "I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that" "Hal, come on, not this shit again?" "Dave, the reactor core cannot be ejected, and cannot be allowed to enter orbit" "Hal, WTF?" "Crew ejection will occur in 3, 2, 1...Goodbye Dave"
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by jlebrech on Friday January 19, 2018 @04:13AM (#16184994)
things are more and more likely to work now we can simulate things with computers first.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by baron816 on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:25AM (#16184507)
Ah, ok. Thanks for the explanation.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by pishpash on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:42AM (#16184548)
> For a vehicle that is on a one-way trip to Mars, and where the reactor will be brought online after it's out of Earth's orbit, this isn't a problem.

Polluting the new homeland from the start, eh?

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by Jesus_Jones on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:57AM (#16184589)
Just bury it out back, we'll clean it up later just like we did in Hanford. No problemo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site.

More seriously, we can afford to have a small amount of nuclear waste there, but we need to plan for it better than we have previously. First, document where it is and what it contains. Second, I don't know.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by sebcat on Friday January 19, 2018 @04:20AM (#16185019)
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by gh02t on Friday January 19, 2018 @11:25AM (#16187402)
Yep, Hanford Site was/is an epic disaster.

The correct response is reprocessing. Most of the "waste" generated by power reactors is actually still usable as fuel. It also eliminates the really long-lived stuff, so that the small amount of leftover waste only has to be kept stored for a much more manageable 500-1000 years.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by optimiz3 on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:12AM (#16184635)
Fun fact: right across from the Hanford Site is a massive Conagra plantation. Source: visited Hanford Site, looked up the company associated with the plantation across the road.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by King-Aaron on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:00AM (#16184597)
That's so when the Martian Congressional Republic eventually decides to declare war on Earth, they'll be weakened from the get-go. It's called playing the long game...
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ekianjo on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:04AM (#16184609)
How does pollution work exactly in an environment that's already hostile to life as we know it?
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ehnto on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:09AM (#16184624)
It adds one more element to overcome when we decide we would like to live there.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ekianjo on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:11PM (#16191416)
It's not like radiation is a non-existent problem to begin with on a planet that does not have enough atmosphere.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by njarboe on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:01AM (#16184427)
It is too bad that most people are so afraid of anything nuclear. I hate to say it, but maybe people working on nuclear power need to change the name. Isotopic power would have pretty bland associations.

Uranium 235 is a very low level radioactive metal. Even if the rocket blew up, the isotopic fuel would remain intact (that is, not vaporized into breathable particles). The radioactivity from a Uranium 235 isotopic reactor comes after the reactor has been running for some period of time (from byproducts of the nuclear reaction), not the original fuel itself.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by stevedonovan on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:01AM (#16184601)
Consider the thermal Plutonium power sources that have been sent on outer Solar System missions. One of those crashing is a much more serious problem than a new U-235 reactor, since Plutonium is very toxic.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by black_puppydog on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:18AM (#16184821)
That already happened. Not something we'd want to happen regularly, but not as dramatic as one (me) would have thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_954#Aftermath

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by garmaine on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:24AM (#16184676)
Plutonium isn't toxic, not any more than any other heavy metal.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ttul on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:30AM (#16184694)
It is radiotoxic
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by garmaine on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:28PM (#16187977)
Nope, it is not. Not anymore than the straight radiation you would get from it.

When you talk of radiatoxicity what is usually meant is the hot particle theory which says that a bit of radioactive material lodged in one place is more likely to cause cancer, because the radiation given off repeatedly hits the same tissue. It turns out that in cohort studies done this is not true. Specifically people who have inhaled plutonium, an inadvisable thing to do, actually have lower rates of lung cancer.

Pu-238 has some radioactivity, although not as much as many fission products. Radioactivity is bad. But the fear over plutonium toxicity is actually overblown beyond the baseline radioactive dose it provides.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by sjcsjc on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:03AM (#16184783)
"maybe people working on nuclear power need to change the name"

Renaming things with bad public images is a popular trick.

Windscale > Sellafield

Blackwater > Xe Services > Academi

Philip Morris > Altria

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by lostlogin on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:29AM (#16184856)
The Blackwater one always mystified me. It’s like they set out to be villains.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ethbro on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:34AM (#16186055)
It was founded in North Carolina. The large number of freshwater waterways around there are generally known as black water.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by wbl on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:53AM (#16186159)
That means something very different to sailors.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ethbro on Friday January 19, 2018 @05:58PM (#16190732)
Pray tell?
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by wbl on Friday January 19, 2018 @09:34PM (#16191723)
Blackwater is sewage containing bodily waste.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by mtgx on Friday January 19, 2018 @06:40AM (#16185493)
They aren't?
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by tbihl on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:25AM (#16184508)
In Japan they just call them 'thermal plants' or 'thermal generators' or something like that. Still, in Japan you have people who follow around US aircraft carriers and submarines to sample their wake for any signs of radioactive discharge.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by rangibaby on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:31AM (#16184697)
I haven't heard that before.

原子力(atomic, using atoms)+発電所(power plant) is the common term

eg 福島(Fukushima)第一(No. 1)原子力(nuclear)発電所(power plant)

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by fb03 on Friday January 19, 2018 @06:11AM (#16185396)
Gen-shi-ryoku Hatsu-den-sho? Let's see if I got it right, my Japanese is a bit rusty.

I am not sure about the readings of the first two kanji (atomic) so I used generic ones heehe.

Thanks in advance.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by rangibaby on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:01PM (#16191366)
Yes you are right.

原子 genshi means atom. 力 means power (strength). Stick them together and it means using the power of the atom.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ekianjo on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:06AM (#16184612)
> In Japan they just call them 'thermal plants'

Japan has completely shut down all operations of Nuclear Plants since 2011. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Japan

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by ptaipale on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:31AM (#16184698)
And as that page also explains, has restarted some of them, and the long-term policy calls nuclear power "the country's most important power source".
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by godelski on Friday January 19, 2018 @10:51AM (#16187093)
A good way to remember energy levels is "longer life, lower energy." Things with a long half life are not decaying very fast. Short half lives, well clearly they don't want to be there, so neither should you.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by debt on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:38PM (#16188074)
It's an extremely toxic, dangerous material overall. The fear is well-founded in a geopolitically chaotic, variable world.

Not to mention, in this case specifically, they're going to strap it to a rocket and send it to Mars.

Gonna be hard to sell people on the safety of the mission if we're potentially spewing nuclear material over thousands of square miles in the worst case scenario.

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by Balgair on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:29PM (#16187982)
I mean, there is a bit of precedence for the fear. It's not that we can't deal with the fission, it's that we can't have really really smart people on deck at all times. The consequences of big failures are pretty bad and pretty newsworthy.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by StreamBright on Friday January 19, 2018 @03:15AM (#16184812)
It happened many times that a nuclear device exploded or by other means entered atmosphere. Lunch site explosions also happened. I think the on the ground accidents are less serious because you can contain them and it is less spread out than for example a satellite exploding in the higher atmosphere.

https://listverse.com/2012/01/20/top-10-space-age-radiation-...

Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by InclinedPlane on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:45PM (#16189119)
The reactor will be launched in a "cold" state, it will also be in a robust structure (though not as strong as RTGs, though that's unnecessary). The absolute worst case scenario is that you get a release of U-235. That's not great but on the scale of radiological hazards it's comparatively very minor. The reactor doesn't start generating fission products (aka "fallout" isotopes) until it's in space and operating, presumably with no chance of returning to Earth.
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by nurettin on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:18AM (#16185642)
Not sure if applicable here; but where I come from they say "the fearful won't have kids"
Re:U.S. tests nuclear power system to sustain astronauts on ... by nahumba on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:21AM (#16184660)
Thats what is bothering you? Did you hear about fukushima? Where are the water to cool it and make steam for the turbine to turn? How much water is needed for a reactor to run safly? What other matterial are they going to heat to turn turbine to produce energy? What is the amount of lost metirial expected over time? And what happen when no cooler matirial is available? Boom?