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Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by noncoml on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:13PM (#16110637)
Depends on what you want in life. If all you care about is money, then yes, your post makes sense.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by dboreham on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:47PM (#16110900)
I was looking at it more from the perspective of understanding how rich/powerful people view the rest of humanity.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by kfriede on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:46PM (#16110889)
Caring solely about money often has the side effect of making others' lives better. Amazon gainfully employs over 500k [1] people, giving them means to put food on the table. Not saying that wouldn't happen without Amazon, but more job availability is always better than less. Bezos just became the richest man ever recorded [2].

[1]: http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/technology/business/amazon-e...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16108295

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by thom on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:13PM (#16111065)
You mean, "giving them means to live in a tent near an Amazon fulfilment centre."
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by kfriede on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:34PM (#16111187)
Who is forcing them to work at Amazon? Their lives are clearly better working there than if Amazon had never existed. If conditions are so bad that these employees live in tents, why not quit and.... oh wait.... live in tents (now with less money).
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by andrepd on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:17PM (#16111789)
Ah the old "it's better to have a glass of water and a stale breadcrust than eat nothing at all".
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by tardygrad on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:42PM (#16111236)
Amazon presumably. Without Amazon they would be making a living wage at a mom&pop store, and we would all be paying more for lower quality products with less choice.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by thom on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:56PM (#16111337)
Well, good luck with that.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by andrepd on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:11PM (#16111760)
https://i.imgur.com/k6ewk2L_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f...

My, how the world was improved by ruthless optimization and margin squeezing, centralization of commerce and retail, concentration of wealth, buying of legislators, invasions of privacy, etc.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by Latty on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:35PM (#16111570)
I mean, we have attempted (at least in part) to create a system where acting selfishly in pursuit of money forces you to create value for society. That's literally the intent of the idea of capitalism.

It's a good idea - people will act selfishly instinctively, so if you can align that to make it good, then everything works.

Of course, we know raw capitalism doesn't work (e.g: monopolies break it). So our systems have all sorts of hacks to try and fix it. The problem is that so many of the richest people just focus on breaking those fixes and finding gaps to exploit to avoid creating value for society.

Currently, a lot of the groups in power across the world are actively trying to make more of those gaps they can slip through, and remove the layers of fixes we have put in to support the people that are not helped by that simple system.

Yes, it's good for people to want to make money in a capitalist system, assuming the system is perfect and that there is no way to break it is to ignore reality.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by dragonwriter on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:40PM (#16111602)
> I mean, we have attempted (at least in part) to create a system where acting selfishly in pursuit of money forces you to create value for society. That's literally the intent of the idea of capitalism.

No, it's not; that's an after-the-fact rationalization.

I mean, we were a few centuries into the feudalism-capitalism transition before anyone started even talking about property rights in those terms in general, at least another century before capitalism as a system was even described (and by it's critics, not it's supporters), and I think several decades later till this excuse was cited specifically as a justification for capitalism as such.

Capitalism was created, incrementally over time, because rich merchants decided to use their wealth to force feudal overlords to cede progrrssively more power and influence to the rich merchants. Not as a manner to harness greed for the public good. Just as a matter of greed, pure and simple.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by Latty on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @06:50PM (#16120230)
Yes, I'm talking about how we justify it now and why we continue to try to use it as our primary system. That is at the very least the sales pitch. I believe it's a sensible idea - trying to ignore or change human nature seems unlikely to work, trying to harness it and direct it seems viable, and works to at least some extent in our current system.

My point was that, while that may be the aim of the system, it's not inherent to it - you are backing up my point by saying that it was not always used that way.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by andrepd on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:15PM (#16111779)
>I mean, we have attempted (at least in part) to create a system where acting selfishly in pursuit of money forces you to create value for society. That's literally the intent of the idea of capitalism.

No that's completely false. Capitalism is the replacement (and logical continuation) of feudalism, after its collapse, as a system of social stratification. Saying that is trying to validate your thinking and ignoring the history of the matter.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by Latty on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @06:52PM (#16120240)
I am talking about the idea as it exists now, not the historical thing. I accept that it didn't spring up as it stands, but the idea that it is a system to create the society we want is at the very least the current claim for why we use it. I believe it's a system that can be made to work well, given the right setup.

My point was that, while that may be the aim of the system, it's not inherent to it - you are backing up my point by saying that it was not always used that way. (You may argue it still doesn't, although I'd say it does at least to some extent).

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by Carioca on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:52PM (#16110940)
> means to put food on the table

With a bit of help from the taxpayers: http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180105/amazon-makes-list-of-l...

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by kfriede on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:55PM (#16110964)
> 700 employees

So, 0.14% of their workforce.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by LV-426 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:50PM (#16111284)
From the article:

"Amazon likely has about 700 workers [in Ohio alone] receiving food stamps, more than 10 percent of its Ohio workforce"

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by arpfaust on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:16PM (#16111076)
Isn't Amazon in the news every month or so because it treats their workers like crap?
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by jshen on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:08PM (#16111745)
You are making a big assumption which I don't think you can make which is ... that Amazon is the result of a person or people who solely care about money.

I don't think your assumption is true.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by andrepd on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:13PM (#16111768)
Well, what do you think they care about then?
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by jshen on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @10:02PM (#16112265)
Many things, money being only one of them.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by ACow_Adonis on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:55PM (#16110965)
Reminds me of:

"Oh, Father. You're so wrong. Let me explain.

[Puts and empty water glass on his desk]

Life, which you so nobly serve, comes from destruction, disorder and chaos. Now take this empty glass. Here it is: peaceful, serene, boring. But if it is destroyed

[Pushes the glass off the table. It shatters on the floor, and several small machines come out to clean it up]

Look at all these little things! So busy now! Notice how each one is useful. A lovely ballet ensues, so full of form and color. Now, think about all those people that created them. Technicians, engineers, hundreds of people, who will be able to feed their children tonight, so those children can grow up big and strong and have little teeny children of their own, and so on and so forth. Thus, adding to the great chain of life. You see, father, by causing a little destruction, I am in fact encouraging life. In reality, you and I are in the same business.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by slg on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:04PM (#16111392)
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by digitaltrees on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:29PM (#16111157)
Fifth element. That’s a Deep cut.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by djsumdog on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:58PM (#16111344)
I don't remember this scene. I might have to watch it again.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by celticninja on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:06PM (#16111404)
When Gary oldman is talking to the priest, then he chokes on a cherry and none of his machines can save him.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by gwern on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @10:14PM (#16112306)
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by roywiggins on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:03PM (#16111384)
Aha, that's the broken window fallacy, I think.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by armenarmen on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:45PM (#16111250)
Aaah Keynesians
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by dang on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @03:38AM (#16113380)
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here, let alone ideological flamebait. Those are just the sort of things we're trying to avoid on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by noncoml on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:55PM (#16111674)
You are talking about making an actual business.

The GP was talking about essentially scamming people.

Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by Retra on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:29PM (#16111539)
If you want something other than money, money will often be the quickest way to get it.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by s73ver_ on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @11:07PM (#16112484)
Even if it's not all you care about, it's still extremely important for living in this world.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by djsumdog on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:56PM (#16111336)
Money can be a thing of worship, like in the film Wolf of Wallstreet.
Re:A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in M... by QAPereo on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:39PM (#16111597)
It’s just a proxy for power... and people have always worshipped power.