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Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by dzink on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:01AM (#16061466)
Didn’t the Intel CEO just sell half of his shares/options? If he knew about these issues isn’t that illegal?
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by chx on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:47AM (#16061913)
You can be sure there's a young hotshot with sparkling eyes at SEC who is already typing a letter to Mr. Krzanich politely asking about the circumstances of that sell.

At the same time, noone is doing eight figures transactions which require reporting to the SEC without talking to a lawyer. Right? Right? They really dislike insider trading, it's one of the few things where even rich people can get imprisoned -- and the typical jail sentence has been steadily climbing up for decades now.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cookiecaper on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:11PM (#16063399)
> They really dislike insider trading, it's one of the few things where even rich people can get imprisoned -- and the typical jail sentence has been steadily climbing up for decades now.

Insider trading, like many white-collar crimes, exists primarily for its value as a weapon. There is nothing actually illegal about the act of selling a stock; it's all about casting aspirations as to intent and who-knew-what-when.

In other situations, intent is usually an aggravating factor, enhancement, or affirmative defense. It is not the thing that qualifies an otherwise 100% legitimate act as a bad thing.

My anecdotal, unsubstantiated perspective is that insider trading is unlikely to be an issue for anyone who hasn't made enemies, and that it may suddenly become an issue for anyone naive enough to make enemies recklessly. cf. Martin Shkreli, who couldn't be linked to a specific "bad trade" so was brought on generic "securities fraud" instead.

Not playing ball with the people wielding these powers seems to be the dangerous thing.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by foldr on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:31PM (#16065387)
Intent is a key component of most crimes, isn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cookiecaper on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:18PM (#16066422)
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, there are definitely people who can explain this better, and I'm probably using these terms incorrectly.

Yes, mens rea is an important consideration, but it's nuanced. Check the Model Penal Code [0], which identifies four differing types of mens rea, including negligence and recklessness; that is, a "guilty mind" (mens rea), for criminal purposes, does not necessarily require what would be conventionally considered bona fide malice or intent to harm.

What I meant when I said an "enhancement" or "aggravating factor" is that usually you have an objectively asocial actus reus, like theft, and should mens rea come into play, it's generally a defensive thing seeking to exculpate the accused, as in "I didn't know it belonged to someone else" (the affirmative defense), not to deny the act.

But with insider trading and other instances of nuanced malum prohibitum [1], the usual relationship between actus reus and mens rea is inverted. To make the crime, one starts with the mens rea, the bad intent, and must identify (or, if necessary, manufacture) an apparently-normal act to register as the external offensive conduct that harmed society and warrants legal action.

That is a scarier proposition because if your daily business involves technical acts that can be converted into actus reus, there's obviously going to be ample opportunity for people to assign and rationalize their preferred ideas about your thought process there and convince themselves that you're a criminal based on their personal level of dislike or offense. If this gets brought in court, your defense will amount to convincing the jury to believe you instead of the prosecutor, which is a straight-up likability and performance contest.

Whereas, with better-defined crimes, there is a physical, independent actus reus that people recognize as objectively bad and probably intentional. If you didn't steal the thing, if they can't show that you stole the thing, that's now the ground that you're fighting over, and that's much better for the defendant because it's much less fickle.

Essentially it makes every defense necessarily affirmative because the conduct is not otherwise unlawful. The government must dislike you enough to assume bad faith first.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Penal_Code#Mens_rea_or_c... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/malum_prohibitum

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by emodendroket on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:12PM (#16064605)
The expression you're looking for is "casting aspersions."
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cookiecaper on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:56PM (#16065047)
Heh, you're right. I promise I knew that. ;) It's too late to fix the typo now, but I appreciate the correction.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by KindOne on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:25PM (#16062878)
Some people think it was due to the tax code changes.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by partiallypro on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:33PM (#16065405)
There is a 0% chance you could prove he sold for that reason. Also if you didn't notice the stock is only a few %pts from its ATH; and almost trading at the exact price he sold it at.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by chx on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:59PM (#16065654)
I have no idea what happens when the official security disclosure happens and the bugfixes get released.

And what the SEC can prove and what they can't, I do not claim to be an authority of.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by partiallypro on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:07PM (#16066326)
Intel and AMD were informed of the vulnerability in June. The stock is up significantly since then, if the CEO was selling for that reason you'd assume it would be much sooner after. In all likelihood this is for tax purposes. The SEC would likely never be able to prove otherwise. I also doubt the SEC even looks at it. There was heavy options volume leading into it though, which they might.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by chx on Thursday January 04, 2018 @07:12AM (#16069748)
The timeline of events is ... interesting: Intel filed its quarterly report October 26 and the trades were initiated on October 30 and executed November 30. There's no doubt he knew. The big question is what lies ahead. When the patches hit, when people other than, how to say, geeks realize what's up then comes the question: does Intel stock drop? If it does, then even the company might come under fire for not disclosing a significant risk.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by partiallypro on Thursday January 04, 2018 @02:56PM (#16073483)
Not sure how this hurts Intel much, they essentially have a monopoly on the CPU space, AMD is only really competing because of their GPU unit. AMD can't scale to meet demand if there were a big shift from cloud providers. Even there Nvidia is miles ahead of everyone (GPU.) The thing is that, if anything, this could help Intel sales, because the only way to -truly- stop this is to get new chips...which Intel will provide, and vendors will have no choice for many larger clients. ARM chips have the same exploits (both variants.) AMD can't scale its business for that kind of demand, and its chips are slower...so what are you going to do?

I doubt the CEO is exactly shaking in his boots or sold for that reason. I'd even be willing to bet Intel will provide a fix on the hardware and continue to use the same sockets so cloud providers can just change them out without further hardware changes.

Intel's stock will probably trade down to 40, fill the gap and continue its uptrend, largely because the market is very bullish on the chip space right now.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by hinkley on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:45PM (#16063082)
It's a good thing.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by kakarot on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:54PM (#16063201)
What is a good thing...?
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by hinkley on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:46PM (#16063789)
Martha Stewart did jail time for insider trading. Turns out the SEC isn't messing around, and they don't hand out community service, probation and fines for this stuff.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by 0xab on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:31PM (#16068053)
That's a common misconception. She did not do jail time for insider trading. She almost certainly would have gotten away with it. The problem is she lied to a federal agent while trying to hide her inside trading. That's what they charged and convicted her with.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by kakarot on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:57PM (#16065051)
Ahhhh, solid reference. At first I thought you were saying insider trading was a good thing and I was thoroughly confused.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by hinkley on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:26PM (#16065334)
Martha has been off of people's radars for a while now. I may need new material.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by city41 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:36PM (#16064279)
That is Martha Stewart's catch phrase.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by mizzack on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:42AM (#16061868)
Looks like Krzanich sold $39.4M of stock on 11/28. Hard to say when the top brass knew about this flaw.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/INTC/insider-transactions?p=...

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by ehsankia on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:28PM (#16062914)
I don't understand this attitude that "top brass might not know about it". He's the CEO, isn't his entire job to know what's going on in the company? I know we get this idea that rich people just sit back and take in the money, but isn't the reason they are paid so much in the first place because they have in theory a big responsibility on what happens in the company?
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by mizzack on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:13PM (#16063423)
You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say he didn't know about it. I said we don't know WHEN he first knew about it, which is important in the context of insider trading.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by ehsankia on Friday January 05, 2018 @08:03PM (#16083152)
According to Google, they found out about it in June, and I think it's fair to assume this was shared with Intel shortly after. From the moment it's shared with Intel, it's fair game. It's up to him to setup the company in such a way that important information like this gets to him quickly.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by philipov on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:46PM (#16063785)
Even if he knew about it, if it was more than 6 months in advance and he follows all the legally-mandated protocols for setting up a regulated stock trade, isn't he safe?

The marvel is that somehow the news was kept from hitting the media until he had finished his trade, and then was revealed immediately after the transaction was complete. I wonder how that coincidence happened.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by mizzack on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:05PM (#16063987)
The SEC would need to be able to show that Krzanich initiated that rather large selloff based on this inside, privileged info. Given the short document retention policies in place at most companies, this would presumably prove pretty difficult.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by fatratchet on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:31PM (#16062949)
The article that started most of the discussion listed the first publicly seen patches at middle of november from Microsoft, and one would assume that a bug that could cause major performance impacts like this makes its way upstairs pretty quickly to Intel.

https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/930412525111296000

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by swarnie_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:39PM (#16063018)
Intention to sell has to be registered with the SEC 6 months in advanced right?
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by mindcrime on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:07AM (#16061513)
Seems debatable. From what I recall, at least some news about this issue was already public before he sold his shares. And what would be illegal would be trading based on information that isn't public. OTOH, since details are still dribbling out, you could possibly argue that the Intel CEO had more complete information than the public.

The sell could also have been scheduled in advance, which would - AFAIK - not violate any insider trading regulations.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by sooheon on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:23AM (#16061684)
Unless the advance scheduling is completely binding, I don't see why that should sidestep insider trading. What's to stop these guys from always having a cascading series of sells and buys 6 mo. in advance, and just cancelling them?
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by douglasfshearer on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:49AM (#16061937)
SEC rules also cover cancellation of orders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Rule_10b5-1#A_possible_loo...

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by eropple on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:38AM (#16061822)
What is to "stop these guys" is the legal parties and officials involved have brains that they can use. The engineer idea of "mwa ha ha, I found a bug, I can walk" is rarely true in practice (n.b.: having quite a lot of money is a different kind of exception).
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by Ajedi32 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:51AM (#16061962)
Basically this: https://xkcd.com/1494/
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by aarongolliver on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:25PM (#16062880)
A good rule of thumb is that if you think you've discovered a loophole that would allow insider trading, and it only took you a few moments of thinking, the SEC thought of it already.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by ashelmire on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:51AM (#16061951)
What, they are never allowed to sell shares then? There are constantly bugs being found in major software and hardware.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by wyldfire on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:14PM (#16062789)
Surely this is a material design defect that anyone would expect to hurt Intel's business in a very significant way.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by Havoc on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:19AM (#16062231)
>Unless the advance scheduling is completely binding

It gets filed with the SEC so should be suitably permanent

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by tdb7893 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:25PM (#16063551)
The orders registered with the SEC and all these cancellations would attract a lot of their attention. I have no doubt they would see through it pretty easily once they started investigating
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by ascagnel_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:11AM (#16061559)
I saw that rumor spreading last night, but have yet to see any trustworthy reporting on any such action.

Edit: Here's trustworthy reporting on that action that also predates this announcement: https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/12/19/intels-ceo-just-so...

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by mox1 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:28AM (#16061734)
I don't think there needs to be much "reporting".

Intel has a rule where c-suite and up execs who have been at the company 5+ years must hold a minimum amount of stock. For the CEO, that number is 250,000. The CEO recently exercised options and immediately sold them, holding onto the absolute minimum required (250k).

This is all available on the SEC's website, trades like this are reported to the SEC and are considered public information.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by Idontagree on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:32AM (#16061772)
Small correction, but generally someone like that exercises their options and sells them for profit, keeping their shares that they've had since whenever. In this case, he exercised the options, sold those shares, and then lowered the amount of shares he had beyond that to the absolute minimum (250k).
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by 1024core on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:39AM (#16061835)
> that also predates this announcement

Apparently, Microsoft has been releasing patches for NT since November, so it isn't exactly predating the bug.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by thisisit on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:00AM (#16062053)
It depends on the transaction. Recent sells are not updated but all intel insider trades can be found here:

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/intc/insider-trades

Most of trades are "automatic sells" which should mean the trades were setup days in advance. And the selling was reported on the back of the Intel issue only.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cjbprime on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:06AM (#16061508)
Yes, it would be, but in practice it's hard to nail people on this. He can argue that he'd already scheduled the sell when he learned about this and it will be difficult to prove otherwise.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by pmoriarty on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:18PM (#16062825)
"it will be difficult to prove otherwise"

The SEC could look at internal emails he got about this flaw, and if he got them (and especially if he replied to them) then it's pretty clear he knew about it.

They doubtlessly have other investigative tools they can use for this as well.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by kamaal on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:55AM (#16062003)
>>If he knew about these issues

Its impossible for him to not know something that is this serious.

If he actually did knew about this, then this is a proof of some serious incompetence.