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Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by chx on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:47AM (#16061913)
You can be sure there's a young hotshot with sparkling eyes at SEC who is already typing a letter to Mr. Krzanich politely asking about the circumstances of that sell.

At the same time, noone is doing eight figures transactions which require reporting to the SEC without talking to a lawyer. Right? Right? They really dislike insider trading, it's one of the few things where even rich people can get imprisoned -- and the typical jail sentence has been steadily climbing up for decades now.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cookiecaper on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:11PM (#16063399)
> They really dislike insider trading, it's one of the few things where even rich people can get imprisoned -- and the typical jail sentence has been steadily climbing up for decades now.

Insider trading, like many white-collar crimes, exists primarily for its value as a weapon. There is nothing actually illegal about the act of selling a stock; it's all about casting aspirations as to intent and who-knew-what-when.

In other situations, intent is usually an aggravating factor, enhancement, or affirmative defense. It is not the thing that qualifies an otherwise 100% legitimate act as a bad thing.

My anecdotal, unsubstantiated perspective is that insider trading is unlikely to be an issue for anyone who hasn't made enemies, and that it may suddenly become an issue for anyone naive enough to make enemies recklessly. cf. Martin Shkreli, who couldn't be linked to a specific "bad trade" so was brought on generic "securities fraud" instead.

Not playing ball with the people wielding these powers seems to be the dangerous thing.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by foldr on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:31PM (#16065387)
Intent is a key component of most crimes, isn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cookiecaper on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:18PM (#16066422)
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, there are definitely people who can explain this better, and I'm probably using these terms incorrectly.

Yes, mens rea is an important consideration, but it's nuanced. Check the Model Penal Code [0], which identifies four differing types of mens rea, including negligence and recklessness; that is, a "guilty mind" (mens rea), for criminal purposes, does not necessarily require what would be conventionally considered bona fide malice or intent to harm.

What I meant when I said an "enhancement" or "aggravating factor" is that usually you have an objectively asocial actus reus, like theft, and should mens rea come into play, it's generally a defensive thing seeking to exculpate the accused, as in "I didn't know it belonged to someone else" (the affirmative defense), not to deny the act.

But with insider trading and other instances of nuanced malum prohibitum [1], the usual relationship between actus reus and mens rea is inverted. To make the crime, one starts with the mens rea, the bad intent, and must identify (or, if necessary, manufacture) an apparently-normal act to register as the external offensive conduct that harmed society and warrants legal action.

That is a scarier proposition because if your daily business involves technical acts that can be converted into actus reus, there's obviously going to be ample opportunity for people to assign and rationalize their preferred ideas about your thought process there and convince themselves that you're a criminal based on their personal level of dislike or offense. If this gets brought in court, your defense will amount to convincing the jury to believe you instead of the prosecutor, which is a straight-up likability and performance contest.

Whereas, with better-defined crimes, there is a physical, independent actus reus that people recognize as objectively bad and probably intentional. If you didn't steal the thing, if they can't show that you stole the thing, that's now the ground that you're fighting over, and that's much better for the defendant because it's much less fickle.

Essentially it makes every defense necessarily affirmative because the conduct is not otherwise unlawful. The government must dislike you enough to assume bad faith first.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Penal_Code#Mens_rea_or_c... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/malum_prohibitum

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by emodendroket on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:12PM (#16064605)
The expression you're looking for is "casting aspersions."
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by cookiecaper on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:56PM (#16065047)
Heh, you're right. I promise I knew that. ;) It's too late to fix the typo now, but I appreciate the correction.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by KindOne on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:25PM (#16062878)
Some people think it was due to the tax code changes.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by partiallypro on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:33PM (#16065405)
There is a 0% chance you could prove he sold for that reason. Also if you didn't notice the stock is only a few %pts from its ATH; and almost trading at the exact price he sold it at.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by chx on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:59PM (#16065654)
I have no idea what happens when the official security disclosure happens and the bugfixes get released.

And what the SEC can prove and what they can't, I do not claim to be an authority of.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by partiallypro on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:07PM (#16066326)
Intel and AMD were informed of the vulnerability in June. The stock is up significantly since then, if the CEO was selling for that reason you'd assume it would be much sooner after. In all likelihood this is for tax purposes. The SEC would likely never be able to prove otherwise. I also doubt the SEC even looks at it. There was heavy options volume leading into it though, which they might.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by chx on Thursday January 04, 2018 @07:12AM (#16069748)
The timeline of events is ... interesting: Intel filed its quarterly report October 26 and the trades were initiated on October 30 and executed November 30. There's no doubt he knew. The big question is what lies ahead. When the patches hit, when people other than, how to say, geeks realize what's up then comes the question: does Intel stock drop? If it does, then even the company might come under fire for not disclosing a significant risk.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by partiallypro on Thursday January 04, 2018 @02:56PM (#16073483)
Not sure how this hurts Intel much, they essentially have a monopoly on the CPU space, AMD is only really competing because of their GPU unit. AMD can't scale to meet demand if there were a big shift from cloud providers. Even there Nvidia is miles ahead of everyone (GPU.) The thing is that, if anything, this could help Intel sales, because the only way to -truly- stop this is to get new chips...which Intel will provide, and vendors will have no choice for many larger clients. ARM chips have the same exploits (both variants.) AMD can't scale its business for that kind of demand, and its chips are slower...so what are you going to do?

I doubt the CEO is exactly shaking in his boots or sold for that reason. I'd even be willing to bet Intel will provide a fix on the hardware and continue to use the same sockets so cloud providers can just change them out without further hardware changes.

Intel's stock will probably trade down to 40, fill the gap and continue its uptrend, largely because the market is very bullish on the chip space right now.

Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by hinkley on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:45PM (#16063082)
It's a good thing.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by kakarot on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:54PM (#16063201)
What is a good thing...?
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by hinkley on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:46PM (#16063789)
Martha Stewart did jail time for insider trading. Turns out the SEC isn't messing around, and they don't hand out community service, probation and fines for this stuff.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by 0xab on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:31PM (#16068053)
That's a common misconception. She did not do jail time for insider trading. She almost certainly would have gotten away with it. The problem is she lied to a federal agent while trying to hide her inside trading. That's what they charged and convicted her with.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by kakarot on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:57PM (#16065051)
Ahhhh, solid reference. At first I thought you were saying insider trading was a good thing and I was thoroughly confused.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by hinkley on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:26PM (#16065334)
Martha has been off of people's radars for a while now. I may need new material.
Re:Intel Confronts Potential ‘PR Nightmare’ With Reported Ch... by city41 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:36PM (#16064279)
That is Martha Stewart's catch phrase.