News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by icebraining on Thursday November 30, 2017 @10:40AM (#15816538)
What the difference?
Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by gvb on Thursday November 30, 2017 @11:01AM (#15816748)
If Judge Alsop said "you covered this up" it would be a statement of fact. He would follow that statement with serious sanctions and the lawyers involved in the coverup would be in serious risk of being disbarred.

When he says "On the surface it looks like you covered this up" he is putting Uber and their lawyers on notice that they had better convince him that they did not in fact cover it up or their world will be filled with hurt.

Update: See "Ethics in Discovery: Where the Rubber Meets the Road"[1] page 17

In an extreme example of discovery related misconduct experienced by the Commission, the defendant intentionally withheld relevant evidence through tampering with documents, lodging baseless objections to production, purposefully misleading the court and the parties, and delaying in responding to permissible discovery requests.

Sounds familiar... and Fry's got hit with some serious sanctions (trial sanctions, not the fines).

Ultimately, the Court struck the affirmative defense to the harassment claim, deemed improperly withheld documents presumptively admissible at trial, ordered a jury instruction that one of the justifications for firing a plaintiff was pretextual, permitted EEOC to argue adverse inference at trial, and imposed $100,000 in sanctions ($25,000 to each of three plaintiffs and $25,000 to the court). In addition, the Court appointed a special master to review and report to the court about defendant’s compliance with outstanding discovery requests.

[1] https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/labor_law...

Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by icebraining on Thursday November 30, 2017 @11:59AM (#15817271)
Right, but the headline isn't "you covered this up", it's "it looks like you covered this up*. The omitted part ("on the surface") doesn't seem to significant alter the statement to me, does it?
Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by gvb on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:47PM (#15818888)
Agreed.
Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by theduncan on Friday December 01, 2017 @11:18AM (#15824771)
He asked on Tuesday, how is he meant to believe anything they say?

Its not the first time they have mislead the court.

Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by IkmoIkmo on Thursday November 30, 2017 @10:43AM (#15816567)
With all these cold winters, on the surface it looks like the earth isn't warming.

...

however: yadadada.

That's often how an on the surface statement is construed.

Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by icebraining on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:01PM (#15817289)
Right, but if you wrote "With all these cold winters, it looks like the earth isn't warming."

Wouldn't that pass more-or-less the same message? I don't see how the omission is significant, let alone "pretty misleading".

Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by macintux on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:03PM (#15818504)
"on the surface" is used when you're either arguing the opposite or leaving the door open to being wrong because you know there is more to be revealed.

"it looks like" can be used in place of a more definitive statement. "on the surface it looks like" is almost never used that way.

Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by emodendroket on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:54PM (#15819425)
> "it looks like" can be used in place of a more definitive statement. "on the surface it looks like" is almost never used that way.

It seems to me that what he is saying is, in the absence of some sort of convincing exculpatory evidence or argument that so far has not been presented, it looks like a cover-up. I don't think I agree with your analysis here.

Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by icebraining on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:09PM (#15818558)
Thanks! Not being a native speaker sometimes the nuances escape me.
Re:Judge Tells Uber Lawyer: ‘It Looks Like You Covered This Up’ by bllguo on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:59PM (#15818963)
I'm a native speaker and I think you're in the right. "On the surface" and "looks like" have effectively equivalent meanings and connotations, at least for me. I don't see how this headline was at all misleading.