"...found they contained malicious code from Equation Group..."

"Equation Group" is Kaspersky's label for a malware group believed to be NSA.

Kaspersky's software possibly then detected as malware the very confidential code the NSA contractor/employee illegally took home, ha!

One of the reasons I ask, is related to Telegram. I'm aware of the crypto argument. But it seems (from the outside, so could be a complete cover of course) that Pavel Durov is somewhat taking a stand against their government[1][2][3]. Is that simply because he has enough money to do so? Or is it just a show to give people the idea he's taking a stand?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram-security/...

[2] https://www.neowin.net/news/russian-government-fines-telegra...

[3] https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/10/30/russian-government-fin...

FWIW this is bullshit, telegram office in St. Petersburg is literally one floor below the VK office and Durov is regularly present there.

The whole exile thing is a charade, they’ve gone as far as assaulting people to try to keep it up https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/03/20/durov/

Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning.

In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly.

In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying.

Now I'm sure there are nuts on the internet who will try to claim that the political divisions of the west are "really" just a front for a kleptrocrat cabal or whatever. But in the real world we have one country arresting its enemies and a bunch that don't, and that distinction matters.

Does delivering Uranium to The Enemy in exchange for cash donations to a slush fund count as "garden variety corruption you find in western countries"?

Does employing El Salvadorian gangs in your nation's capital to intimidate and assassinate your political enemies count as "garden variety corruption you find in western countries"?

I have to admit, even in a subthread where I was sure we'd see conspiracy nuttery, this is not the conspiracy I would have expected. You realize this is a totally fabricated thing, right? The timing alone should tell you all you need to know about what the intent behind it was.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/225

Suggest that it's not fabricated?

You're of course referring to that exploratory deal involving no delivery of Uranium anywhere.

The grandparent was treating it in the sense of security analysis: requiring proof of safety before granting trust.

I know which paradigm I'd pick before installing an trusted piece of software that can literally snoop on the whole system. But, y'know, whatever. You be you.

Basically: almost the whole of the Russian economy has been subverted to serve the needs of Putin's government. What are the chances that Kaspersky alone has not? Seems low enough to maybe look elsewhere for your AV needs.

Who cares if Putin personally calls the shots to the leaders of the company? There are a thousand shades of grey, for instance: Kaspersky knowledgeably allowing backdoors about which they could later feign ignorance.

I don’t trust US, Chinese, or Russian software. Big companies with access to sensitive data invariably become targets, and are only allowed to exist peacefully with the blessing of their masters.

And even if there are those who oppose, there are also those who do not - and the do nots often get favors, inside info, etc. The opposers aren't really a concern.

It doesn't get more macro than what happened to Khodorkovsky, who got his company (Russia's biggest at the time) stolen from him once Putin started consolidating his power (in the early 2000s). That's like the Democrats confiscating the Koch brothers' conglomerate business and putting them in prison, or like the Republicans doing the same thing to some big Hollywood media mogul. It's not going to happen.

Where the hell do people come up with this? It's not only untrue, it's not even feasible.

Russia had a few of those in the mid 90's. They're all jailed or exiled, or in more than a few cases murdered. Who are Putin's powerful domestic opponents whose existence you think is unfeasible to deny?

And all these positions are staffed with individuals who have intimate contact to Putin himself. Ranging from the husband of his daughter (Kirill Shamalov) who within months after the marriage took over Sibur, one of the largest petro businesses in the country, to old KGB aides of Putin who are now in charge of say, Rostec (Sergey Viktorovich Chemezov ) Russia's largest tech company. He too met Putin during his KGB time in East Germany. The list is too long for one post.

This is called an oligarchy and it's a fairly common historical arrangement. Nothing special about it and can be found in stratified countries where economic and political power is concentrated in the hand of a few families.

What about the minor detail that the oligarchs existed not only before Putin, but before Yeltsin, his predecessor, as well (not that they didn't grow under Yeltsin, but still)?

Most documentation that even passes a smell test of being reasonably plausible also suggests that the relationship was inverted - the oligarchs had more influence over Yeltsin than he did over them. When Putin took power, he was known for getting rid of many of them. The interesting thing about that, is that can be interpreted charitably or uncharitably - reducing the level of corruption and oligarch abuse of the government would be a positive thing, but banishing those who don't get in line (where we are assuming "getting in line" means they are being asked to do bad things, not follow laws) seems to be the default assumption in Russia's case. As far as I've seen, there's really never been anything to substantiate the uncharitable narrative, but so many people who have never been to Russia or spoken to a Russian person have themselves thoroughly convinced that they understand these secret "arrangements".

The whole idea that he could be a mafia boss and the CEO of literally everything is just crazy thinking, yet many of us westerners seem to just eat it up, and anything shady that happens even close to the government is always personally attributed to Putin's orders. It'd be like calling Trump a mafia boss because some random cop took a bribe in some city in the mid west. The idea is laughable, and the fact that we got here warrants a little bit of self-reflection on our part.

Nobody is doubting that. The country wasn't liberal or less oligarchic under Yeltsin, it was just as oligarchic under Soviet rule. Russia never meaningfully deviated from this course.

And this doesn't just come from a 'westerner far removed from Russia'. I have family in the country and lived there and I have experienced the degree of corruption not just under Putin but his predecessors personally.

Also, why do you believe that the corruption you experienced was because of the leader, rather than despite the leader's efforts?

I do not think anyone would even try to claim that Russia does not have a corruption problem. Putin himself has discussed it at length, particularly expressing frustration over how it cripples the economy, which is probably his biggest obsession.

Furthermore, and I am assuming here, but unless you're from an extremely important family, it seems unlikely that the flavor of corruption you would experience is even in the same universe as what the oligarchs and president are dealing with. This goes back to the idea of him being the mafia boss CEO of literally everything.

because of the programs he has put in place. Role of state owned entreprises has nearly doubled up to 70% of the economy, he has consciously put these close friends in place, he has cut down on any form of opposition and dissent within the country. It is the official course of his politics. The Russian government is not even hiding this, which makes the constant apologia from people not even affected by it seem only more baffling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_state

Those files were destined to be leaked somehow the moment they were created.

> Seems like massive incompetence from this user

So when we delete production data, it is a process failure[Gitlab postmortem] but when employees at a three letter agency cause spillage, it is a felony? It is wrong on several counts. One: this is data that we should not be hoarding in the first place. We should be helping vendors fix their stuff so the cachet of information automatically loses its value to people who want to get it. Two: Even if we are an axis of evil and don't want to do the right thing, punishing this individual seems like the thing the higher ups at an oppressive regime would do to prevent the wrath of the dictator on themselves for failing to prevent what is really a system failure.

[Gitlab postmortem] https://about.gitlab.com/2017/02/10/postmortem-of-database-o...

Edit while I have your attention I would like your support in ending the CFAA https://cfaa.eff.org/

Are you equating an accident that resulted in deleted data with someone intentionally taking confidential materials and putting them on an insecure, personal computer?

We treat nude photos differently than photos of a dog.

We treat credit card/user information differently than app logs.

That's why we have concepts such as HIPAA and PCI.

I am very saddened by my inability to communicate this in a better way but punishing this person will not solve any problem except someone somewhere can check a box saying they did their job.

Truly shocking revelation I know.

Why not both?

I don't think it even needs a narrative about Kaspersky. You could expect that they're infiltrated in some way (worker, infrastructure, hosting, ...) and leak information to FSB. I'm exactly the same way Symantec could leak information to NSA. Without the evil qualifier and narrative for the reasons, both are likely to happen to some extent.

I don't know about this particular story, but Kaspersky is certainly has strong ties with FSB, FSO and other official structures. I don't mean that it's their main business model — developing anti-virus software pays well enough not to be some cover story — but they're definitely _friendly_ on a deep personal level. Kaspersky himself was educated in KGB school, worked in government structures and has a lot of connections (which he used, for example, with that shady story when his son was kidnapped).

Usually, in Moscow, there is a strong correlation between being a highly educated, well-paid IT professional and having a negative opinion about current Russian regime; but judging from my second-hand stories from friends and colleagues, guys at Kaspersky tend to be very patriotic and pro-government. So, while I don't think that Kaspersky lab was founded deliberately like some sort of cover. But they're the kind of people who would definitely help FSB with whatever they ask — not because of some secret court order, but happily, thinking that they are serving their country and doing a good thing.

Read the first-person account by Igor Ashmanov who witnessed the whole incident. [1] Kaspersky's son was found not by FSB, he was found by the unit of Moscow police that was specifically created to deal with kidnappings, with cases like that one. If the story with the kidnapping proves anything, it proves the opposite, that he actually had NO any serious FSB connection.

[1] https://roem.ru/18-10-2017/261503/kaspersky-poprosil-dokazat... and following comments

Yeah, a really good and unbiased source you got there.

Do you have sources for this? Well-paid professional might not care about politics at all or might be OK with current regime because it doesn't interfere with their life. Furthermore, some of them might be even proud for occupying Crimea.

But I can agree that there is relatively high percent of anti-Putin people in Moscow.

In this case, _if_ you buy into the arc of the story then I would say it was it was likely another family member who tried to do the pirated software. But that would be a massive faux pas. So there's likely other nips and tucks, etc.

I'm sorry but Kaspersky gets NSA files and deletes them, instead of handing them to FSB? Nope, I don't believe it. You can get away with xx murders in exchange for that

And that's the most generous assumption--that Kaspersky wasn't looking for them