News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by antispew on Thursday October 26, 2017 @12:39PM (#15560501)
Farmers cannot fight Monsanto. That is suicide.

Let's say you sue for an entire year's worth of crops and you win. Then you win the appeal. And you win the appeal of the appeal. All the way up the chain. For 10 years, you win on every level.

But you never plant another crop and you go out of business. At this point, Monsanto owns the world of agriculture. If you are planting something that is not owned by Monsanto, you are losing. Monsanta-engineered crops have such a higher yield that to plant anything else would wipe out your profit margin. The higher yield is magnified by the fact that non-Monsanto crops planted anywhere near Monsanto crops are dying from Monsanto herbicides.

It's simple math. No farmer can survive 10 years of losses due to inferior production. The giants like ADP won't go after Monsanto because they have not been affected. They are already using Monsanto seed. Young independents won't go after Monsanto because the only way they can compete against the ADPs is to use Monsanto.

So you have a few handfuls of old farmers who are ready to retire and have no family who want to carry on. They are going to sell out to some cookie-cutter subdivision developer anyway, so maybe they could be enticed into an otherwise suicidal court case. Or maybe they don't have the energy for it.

Those who win (iffy at best) will not win a real windfall. No court is going to give Monsanto a death sentence. And the farmers will have a hardtime arguing too much harm when they still got 50% of their crop harvested and made $millions$ by selling the land. Mansanto can absorb a million dollar settlement here and there.

If I'm Monsanto, I'm not worried.

If I'm a no-holds-barred in-it-for-the-buck securities advisor, I'd say "buy Monsanto." I might also say, "short Whole Foods" because their supply is dwindling and their prices have to go up. If I'm a save-the-world stop-injustice activist, I'm looking for new sources of significant capital to stem the tide. And I'll keep fighting on because it was a dim prospect from the beginning anyway.

Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by shawn-butler on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:57PM (#15561365)
Monsanto does not own the world of agriculture. This is a ridiculous claim.

There are many more than 1,000 separate seed companies that supply the many types of commercial seeds globally, and hundreds of seed companies that sell corn and soybean seed to American farmers. In fact, aggregate commercial sales by all seed companies account for only about 40 percent of the total volume of seeds used globally in 2014 (not sure of the last seasons). Of those commercial seed sales, roughly 2/3 of the seed volume comes from private breeding programs and significantly 1/3 comes from national or public institutions.

The remaining non-commercial seed volume is seed saved and replanted by farmers. Monsanto participates in only a few crops, with the two largest being corn and soybeans. While Monsanto is one of the largest commercial seed companies, even in those crops their output probably accounts for less than one-third of global commercial volume.

Therefore, if a farmer wants to plant seed from someone other than Monsanto, it’s very easy to do that. People use Monsanto products because of the genetics/profitability not out of intimidation or fear.

Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by zzzeek on Thursday October 26, 2017 @05:39PM (#15563297)
> In fact, aggregate commercial sales by all seed companies account for only about 40 percent of the total volume of seeds used globally in 2014 (not sure of the last seasons). Of those commercial seed sales, roughly 2/3 of the seed volume comes from private breeding programs and significantly 1/3 comes from national or public institutions.

> While Monsanto is one of the largest commercial seed companies, even in those crops their output probably accounts for less than one-third of global commercial volume.

These are very specific quantitative statements. Can you provide your sources? it seems like whatever this is from is overall very interesting to read.

Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by cisanti on Thursday October 26, 2017 @02:45PM (#15561785)
You seem like a person who knows the deal. Is there illegal market for Monsanto seeds? Let's say people smuggling the product out of USA to countries that they can't go after the IP etc? Could North Korea use secretly their seeds to have better output or are those seeds so very specifically engineered?
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by sprucely on Thursday October 26, 2017 @04:29PM (#15562733)
Most commercial varieties these days are hybrids. Many of the desirable traits are fixed for the plants that grow from that "F1" generation. But if you try to plant harvested seeds from those plants ("F2" generation) you'll get inconsistent results. It's possible to isolate particular traits via selfing and selecting for those traits. It's a years-long process, but I could see that happening in countries not beholden to Monsanto or trade deals.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by dbcurtis on Thursday October 26, 2017 @11:29PM (#15565495)
It is true for maize that you can create an unstable hybrid, which has been used as a form of IP control by corn seed companies for longer than I have been alive. That is also true for numerous other plants. As far as I know, it is not possible to create an unstable soybean hybrid, which is why Monsanto went the licensing route.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by sprucely on Friday October 27, 2017 @06:59PM (#15572920)
My understanding of beans is that it is possible, but not commercially feasible. Something about the yield of seeds per plant versus the effort to control the crossing of parental inbred lines.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by cisanti on Friday October 27, 2017 @04:30AM (#15566620)
What does unstable in this context exactly mean?
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by dbcurtis on Friday October 27, 2017 @08:32AM (#15567673)
If you replant the unstable seed it might not germinate, if it does is likely to be stunted and sterile.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by Natanael_L on Friday October 27, 2017 @06:12AM (#15567048)
Chance of successful replication of the desirable traits to the offspring (seeds) of the plants
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by prklmn on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:08PM (#15560860)
> Let's say you sue for an entire year's worth of crops and you win. Then you win the appeal. And you win the appeal of the appeal. All the way up the chain. For 10 years, you win on every level.

Herein lies the beauty of a class action suit. Let the lawyers finance and worry about the lawsuit while you go on your merry way running your farm.

Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by countryslicker on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:17PM (#15560953)
Running your farm without Monsanto seed. That's the point. Farming without Monsanto seed today is a death sentence.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by zzzeek on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:46PM (#15561258)
Organic farms don't use Monsanto GMO seeds. they haven't died.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by neolefty on Thursday October 26, 2017 @02:08PM (#15561461)
It's a major undertaking to switch from conventional to organic farming. Much more labor intensive, can take a few years for pesticide residues to dissipate, not even possible in some location due to neighbors. Not something most farmers are in a position to do, at least for their entire acreage.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by askz on Thursday October 26, 2017 @02:16PM (#15561526)
So what? Do we continue because we're f* up anyway?

I don't think it's an option to consider alternatives in this case.

Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by jonreem on Thursday October 26, 2017 @03:10PM (#15562035)
Easy to say when your livelihood isn't on the line.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by thriftwy on Thursday October 26, 2017 @04:51PM (#15562890)
Why run farm without their seed? Can't you be buying their seed while suing their ass off?

If Monsanto think they can stop selling you their wares because they don't like you they should be dissolved today.

Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by neolefty on Thursday October 26, 2017 @02:06PM (#15561446)
There are other seed companies that are competitive with Monsanto's traits. Pioneer, Syngenta.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by BenjiWiebe on Thursday October 26, 2017 @02:31PM (#15561653)
Pioneer and some other company I can't think of right now seem to be the main seed companies around here, not Monsanto. And central Kansas is definitely farming country.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by Chris_Jay on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:52PM (#15561311)
It seems that farming with Monsanto seed is just a slower death sentence.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by nothrabannosir on Thursday October 26, 2017 @07:46PM (#15564291)
Life is a slow death sentence. Who will commit suicide to protest Death?
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by chefkoch on Thursday October 26, 2017 @03:30PM (#15562204)
Monsanto, DuPont and Syngenta are the big players in the seed market. So i guess their products are more or less in the same league.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by s73ver_ on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:28PM (#15561082)
So, if it's that bad, why don't we rise up and string their executives and legal team up? I don't want to have to resort to that, but at some point it seems that's the only thing they'll listen to.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by sova on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:38PM (#15561182)
At the very least they must advocate for the earth and health of the ecosystems. However, it is much more tempting for fools to put the earth through a wood chipper, just to dance in a pile of mulch that we call money. Monsanto could actually be a world saving company, but they are not trying to further nature, but exploit it. And then, when they screw up, they try and hide it. It is not going to last forever, but they believe that with lies they can last longer, and this is incorrect. Not to mention that we are eating what they are growing. The Egyptians mastered irrigation and the Native Americans taught the pilgrims agriculture, for what, so we can enslave our farmers and hard working agrarians on a treadmill of defeat and lawsuits? My country, how I weep for thee.
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by eartheaterrr on Thursday October 26, 2017 @04:21PM (#15562662)
What's ADP? Are you referring to this company: https://www.adp.com/ ?
Re:Monsanto Attacks Scientists After Studies Show Trouble fo... by grzm on Thursday October 26, 2017 @04:25PM (#15562696)
I suspect they may mean ADM (Archer Daniels Midland), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Daniels_Midland

I would have read it as a typo, but they did use it twice.