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Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by overcast on Monday October 23, 2017 @11:59AM (#15534139)
Someone from our office just died over the weekend, we all found out about an hour ago. They were the type of person that essentially spent their waking hours working for this company. Crack of dawn up, and last to leave, working after hours, and on weekends.

I'm betting in their final hour they didn't wish they were still at work, or got more hours in. Busting your ass working IS a waste of life. You can be passionate about your work, but don't be ridiculous. You're only here once.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by dbdr on Monday October 23, 2017 @01:42PM (#15535160)
>> No matter what you do, it’s time to stop watching Netflix every night and browsing webshops for the newest clothes.

> I'm betting in their final hour they didn't wish they were still at work, or got more hours in.

The might feel better about the work they did than the time spent on netflix or buying clothes. Or the other way around. Or wish they put more time and energy elsewhere entirely. Everyone -- me included -- would probably benefit from thinking hard about such questions and adjusting their life accordingly if needed.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by hungerstrike on Monday October 23, 2017 @01:13PM (#15534789)
> Busting your ass working IS a waste of life.

Maybe, maybe not. That's your opinion because the only source of truth here is your own feelings.

> You can be passionate about your work, but don't be ridiculous.

You can be whatever you want and if you're fine with that, then great. Everybody is different. Average people/workers/earners obviously think and behave differently than those who are above average.

> You're only here once.

...as far as you know.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by wbrocklebank on Monday October 23, 2017 @03:45PM (#15536342)
Statistics routinely prove the majority of people feel they are an “above average” driver. I imagine the same is true of being “above average” in life for their situation.

OP’s post is about those times when your feeling that you’re “above average” is questioned, by those times when facts strongly suggest you’re not.

What then? Quitters quit. That’s not good, right? Persistence wins, graft often beats talent.

But statistics also show the majority of investors (amateur & professional) hold their losses too long and sell their winnings too early. They failed to learn when to quit.

It’s complicated, for sure.

(“Fail fast” - is that quitting?)

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by overcast on Monday October 23, 2017 @01:19PM (#15534859)
No, that's a fact. No one on their death bed has wished they worked more. They wished they spent more time with family/friends/traveling/vacations/reading/sports/whatever. Working until you died is what slaves did.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by Mz on Monday October 23, 2017 @04:47PM (#15536810)
I'm not on my death bed, but I wish to hell and back I could work more. I'm sick to death of being poor. I'm broke today. I hate it so fucking much.

Half of that equation is that I have health issues, so sometimes I am just too sick to work. The other half seems to be that I am a woman, so good luck getting taken seriously.

I spend a lot of my time wishing I were dead because being unable to get enough work is such a shitastic experience. So, you know, speak for yourself. The feminization of poverty is real. Working to benefit other people without getting paid for it is the actual definition of what slaves do. It also nicely sums up what traditional women's work is all about, which most women still do the lion's share of.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by belorn on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @04:32AM (#15540091)
If you want the traditional work experience for men with health issues, the equation is very simple. You "man up" and go to work and pretend that you are not sick, regardless of pain, fatigue or dizziness. You will be taken seriously, but only if you can hold up the perception of male persona with perfect health and strength. Otherwise you will not just loose the ability to be taken serious at work, but society in general will reject you.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by Mz on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @07:01AM (#15540687)
I have done plenty of manning up. I paid down debt while improving my income while homeless. I also appear to be the only woman on the leaderboard of Hacker News, so I appear to get taken a helluva lot more seriously than most women. It still fails to translate to serious income, even though a recent resume job I did was for a CEO who indicated he knew me via Hacker News and I had impressed him.

Getting taken seriously for a woman is apparently still pretty damn pathetic. I would like to get taken seriously without such qualifiers. Such qualifiers are always a huge negative. Women only awards are basically a dunce cap with a crown drawn on it to pretty it up. They are akin to the Special Olympics. The fundamental message there is that "you can't really compete."

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by belorn on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:27AM (#15541031)
The only one that can compete is the few lucky percent at top that have health and strength to do so. Manning up is not an achievement, it is a symptom of the core issue in cultural differences in how women and men are treated.

The general cultural view seen in for example health care is that men are assumed healthy and strong. This is great if you are that, but catastrophic if you aren't. Treatments get delayed, problems worsened, and in psychology there is a recognized problem of not seeing mental illness in men. For women its not perfect either. While assumed poor health do generally lead to faster treatment and better contact with the health care for women, the doctors don't believe in actually curing problems so health care for women has disproportionation amount of only addressing symptoms. In averages, some treatment is still better than no treatment which is reflected in the statistics and increased life span.

This pattern show up all the time in gender studies. Men end up as majority at the top and bottom of the charts, women at the middle. The fact that you are a woman should in average give you an advantage at work in comparison to men with same health issues, pushing you towards the middle. Men can pretend and hide the health issue for a while (ie manning up), but its unlikely to work and carries with it some major health risks, not to mention that shitastic experience. In all its a bad situation for everyone with health issues, regardless of gender.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by Mz on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:36AM (#15541085)
I have been working on both my health issues and my income. I have seen improvements in both.

To my mind, this is not terribly relevant to the issue I would like to see resolved. I have done all that. It hasn't exactly resulted in accolades, so to speak. In fact, it appears to me that I am so competent that people routinely think I am just making shit up. They think I am an egomaniac, liar, deluded or something along those lines.

I don't like where this conversation is going at all. I think my time would be better spent talking to myself in a corner in the form of blogging.

Adieu.

[dead]
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by Mz on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @07:40AM (#15540843)
That isn't my position. I don't appreciate having it implied about me.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by jansho on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @05:13AM (#15540262)
I’m a minority, had health issues in the past, tried to “man up”, still got some people not taking me seriously and thanks to politics it went viral anyway. What now?

Even though I understand what you’re saying, I’m being defensive here because every person’s case is unique and it’s not really fair to tell them to “man up”. We already know that, thanks, but most of the time it’s just not enough to improve the situation.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by belorn on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:51AM (#15541151)
I am not advocating that one should man up, quite the opposite. Ignoring health issues is a recipe for disaster, and no amount of short term gains in respect should be worth it.

The best I can advocate for is shared sympathy. Not only for the physical and mental pains, but also for the massive amount of economical trouble it brings. Studies on income difference between groups with different health status is massive and dwarfs anything which gender studies generally find. That should bring people together in common cause rather than splitting us up based on gender, race, religions or other extrinsic attribute.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by jdbernard on Monday October 23, 2017 @04:41PM (#15536775)
Eh, you can't claim factually that this is true:

> No one on their death bed has wished they worked more.

Unless maybe you've personally interviewed everyone who has ever been on their death bed? I mean, if we're going to talk about things at a factual level...

The constructive point I'm trying to make is that this is shared cultural wisdom, not fact. I agree with it, actually, but we should not so quickly dismiss the alternative. I can see the appeal of living a life of singular purpose, especially if you are successful in leaving your mark on the world.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by conradfr on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @04:30AM (#15540082)
I guess young people in startups don't have the opportunity to watch many exceptional and truly irreplaceable colleagues retiring ... and being completely forgotten the next week.

Even Apple sells more iPhone with Jobs gone.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by heyyou123 on Monday October 23, 2017 @12:45PM (#15534546)
I get what you're saying, but in the article the guy is working towards a life goal - to work for himself, not for someone else.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by blablabla123 on Monday October 23, 2017 @01:12PM (#15534783)
I co-founded a startup with 2 other people and really regret that I didn't quit before the thing kind of imploded after 2 years. I was one of the worst experiences in my life and at the beginning I thought like this guy: oh yeah, life is not tough enough, it needs to get harder so it's challenging and I get somewhere. I wish I had failed fast and left this horrible experience after 3 months.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by wiz21c on Monday October 23, 2017 @04:09PM (#15536539)
I'd love to hear more people like you (and me :-) ) Honesty about failures (whatever the reason) lacks so much down here and is so reassuring (when the "whatever" reason is outside oneself)...
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by overcast on Monday October 23, 2017 @12:48PM (#15534572)
Sure, but my statement stands. Life is about balance.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by logical42 on Monday October 23, 2017 @02:59PM (#15535943)
For you maybe. Probably not for Elon Musk.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by overcast on Monday October 23, 2017 @03:09PM (#15536032)
There are only a few people per century at the level of Elon Musk. This isn't the same discussion.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by kwoff on Monday October 23, 2017 @05:56PM (#15537274)
[citation needed] There are, of course, many people "at the level" of Elon Musk. (I don't mean that flippantly, either.)
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by overcast on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:01AM (#15541548)
Sounds like you have that citation already on hand. Give me that list of many people doing the equivalent of sending people to Mars, changing the auto industry, and building an alternative energy empire.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by zimpenfish on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:11AM (#15541631)
> doing the equivalent of sending people to Mars

Musk isn't doing that. He likes to talk about it but there are many decades of work before it becomes viable (if it ever does.)

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by module0000 on Monday October 23, 2017 @02:13PM (#15535476)
>> I'm betting in their final hour they didn't wish they were still at work, or got more hours in. Busting your ass working IS a waste of life. You can be passionate about your work, but don't be ridiculous. You're only here once.

Not everyone believes they are only here once, just to be devils advocate. Some of them believe they are commanded to "be joyful workers", or some paraphrase there of. There are a lot of people that work themselves to death, because they believe a divine entity commanded them to do so. Logical reasoning may be less than effective with this group of humans.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by jdbernard on Monday October 23, 2017 @04:39PM (#15536766)
> Logical reasoning may be less than effective with this group of humans.

Not sure the implied condescension is justified here. Some of history's great thinkers held that position. Different axioms lead logically to different conclusions. Dismissing differing views categorically as "illogical" isn't productive. Just to be devil's advocate.

Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by loa_in_ on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @04:34AM (#15540100)
In fact, once you assume you're incapable of having a coherent absolute viewpoint because you're a unit in a greater whole with an independent viewpoint of it's own and your infering abilities are limited by time and/or energy you essentially have to pick your own axioms and therefore you're certain you will arrive at different conclusions than someone else.
Re:Don’t Quit When It Gets Hard by swyx on Monday October 23, 2017 @01:57PM (#15535327)
I'm sorry for your loss.