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Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by mabbo on Thursday October 12, 2017 @01:59PM (#15459849)
Languages change, evolve, and split into new languages. This has gone on forever- why would it stop now?
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by mirimir on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:08PM (#15459914)
Right. I mean, is American English just British English with mistakes? Or is British English just Anglo-Frisian with mistakes?

Also, this is rather old news. Perhaps it was insightful, in its day.

Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by ryanobjc on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:28PM (#15460098)
Given the political and national context, I'd say this "old news" is quite up to date, and furthermore something that most people obviously don't believe in.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by mirimir on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:42PM (#15460212)
Yes, fair enough. I guess that it's just old news to me. Being old, and having read it 18 years ago ;)
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by jbob2000 on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:04PM (#15459879)
It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by LyndsySimon on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:10PM (#15459921)
I'm from rural Arkansas, and from my perspective, the dialect that is spoken there shares more in common with AAVE than standard English.

The difference that I see is that I was expected to learn and speak standard English in a professional environment while the perception among my peers seems to be that those who natively speak AAVE expect their dialect to be accepted in all settings.

Note that I was careful to say that this is my perception of the expectations of others. My experience shows that native AAVE speakers adapt their language in professional circumstances in exactly the same way I adapt my own.

Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by rhizome on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:14PM (#15459968)
I don't understand the "expect" part, but are you trying to describe code-switching?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching

Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by Pharylon on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:11PM (#15459934)
Yeah, this. It's called "code switching" and we all do it. The way you talk to your boss is not the way you talk to your friends is not the way you talk to your Grandpa is not the way you talk on Facebook etc.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by guelo on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:25PM (#15460072)
I don't know about the perception among your peers, but most AAVE speakers I know make an effort not to use it in professional settings.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by rhizome on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:07PM (#15459907)
It causes segregation based on race

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Why isn't it a result of segregation?

Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by mirimir on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:11PM (#15459936)
Yes, this is more likely. I suspect that there was also a desire for private communication using code words, especially before slavery was abolished.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by monochromatic on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:13PM (#15459953)
The causation probably goes both directions here.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by Karunamon on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:16PM (#15459990)
Indeed. It's a bit ridiculous to assume that how someone speaks doesn't influence the perceptions of others.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by mikeash on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:10PM (#15459924)
It's also caused by segregation based on race. Fully integrated communities don't develop racially-linked dialects.

In any case, talking about whether or not it helps seems to be pointless. The dialect exists whether it's helpful or not. If it's an obstacle to bringing people together, then we need to figure out ways to overcome that obstacle, not wish it away.

Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by jbob2000 on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:28PM (#15460093)
As it relates to the article, the school board basically sanctioned speaking this dialect. My thought was that, this action is increasing the obstacles to overcome: textbooks are written in "white" english and the teachers speak that way, but they're promoting that it's ok to not read, write, or understand the dialect, furthering the divide between the communities.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by tempYeez on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:07PM (#15459906)
That seems like a very inflammatory statement. I doubt what most african americans want out of desegregation is their culture wiped out and replace with american white culture. The more apt solution would be to stop being prejudice towards other american subcultures.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by monochromatic on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:14PM (#15459970)
It’s not just a racial things. Rural whites have their own way of speaking that’s stigmatized in professional settings too.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by psyc on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:19PM (#15460014)
It would take a lot of confidence and charisma even for me to pull off my local white, urban dialect in the workplace. I really don't think it's asking too much to adopt a standard depending on context and audience.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by tempYeez on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:18PM (#15460006)
Agreed it's a cultural one. African Americans aren't a race they are an ethnic group with their own culture including dialect. This dialect isn't shared among african americans and lets say Nigerians.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by gugagore on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:13PM (#15459960)
Recognizing a difference where there is one does not cause segregation based on race.

If we have to choose a causal direction, I'm pretty sure it goes the other way. Otherwise we'd say things like "The government are trying to take my job away." (what British English speakers would say) to suggest someone is stupid, but no one does. That sentence, from my American-English perspective, sounds just as "different" as "The government be trying to take my job away.", which is grammatical in Black English.

Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by ak_yo on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:13PM (#15459957)
I'd be interested in reading evidence that supports a causal link between AAVE usage and segregation. To the best of my knowledge, no research has shown this to be the case, but I might be missing something. Did you have a particular study in mind?
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by rhizome on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:18PM (#15459999)
jbob2000 rarely participates in the inflammatory threads he sparks, so the smart money here is probably in avoiding anything with a question mark.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by jbob2000 on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:24PM (#15460049)
No, I just usually hit the "You're posting too fast" mark and give up for the day.
Re:African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard Engli... by rhizome on Friday October 13, 2017 @03:14PM (#15468498)
I do too, but I come back to reply to previous threads later.