News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by SerLava on Friday September 29, 2017 @08:54AM (#15364761)
Something to realize here:

If you're between 10 and 60 years old, "I don't use social media" will likely not really be an answer at the border. Even a barely-used account will not really be an answer.

They're going to be able to say you're probably just hiding your real account. That could factor into denying you entry into a country.

If this becomes common with many countries, it could become de facto illegal to keep social media out of your daily habits.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by _jal on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:03AM (#15364831)
Which is deeply disturbing - I really don't use FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc.

By virtue of my choice of parents and their choice of locale when I was born, this particular bit of tyranny (I use that word advisedly) won't hit me, but when every other country on earth follows suit...

Waiting for the services to pop up selling fake social accounts as cover for the Officially Socially Atypical types.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by jcranmer on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:46AM (#15365175)
> If you're between 10 and 60 years old, "I don't use social media" will likely not really be an answer at the border. Even a barely-used account will not really be an answer.

Why not? According to an article I read, only about 75% of US teens use Instagram and a similar amount use Snapchat (the only media the article gave). Quite frankly, about 10-20% of even First World populations don't use social media or use it very lightly. That's not particularly uncommon.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by coldtea on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:13AM (#15365411)
Instagram and Snapchat are niche, and even then "only about 75% of US teens" is huge.

> Quite frankly, about 10-20% of even First World populations don't use social media or use it very lightly.

10-20% is still small enough to start by assuming everybody uses them, and treat the 1 in 5/10 persons as a weirdo that merits extra examination.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by vacri on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:04PM (#15370008)
> about 10-20% of even First World populations don't use social media

Does your number include old people? I imagine a border guard would be more willing to accept a retiree not using social media than a college-age student.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by bit48 on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:12AM (#15364905)
Question is what happens if one really does not use social media, at least mainstream playforms such as facebook. I'm guessing I'm not the only one around here with a small social media footprint...
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by SerLava on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:14AM (#15364930)
That's what I'm getting at - I don't use public social media and would probably get denied.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by donohoe on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:36AM (#15365090)
My guess is very little. If it turns out you were lying it might go against you on future visits, or jeopardize green card etc if it came up.

To me it’s not all about that. It’s this dragnet and the meta data (profiles of people who connect to you become fair game)

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by vidarh on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:16AM (#15364946)
Time to set up a startup to fake believable social media traffic, I guess.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by rdtsc on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:52AM (#15365224)
That's my problem. I am not on Facebook (not explicitly, I am sure it has a shadow account on me). I am not on Twitter. Not on G+.

Recruiters seems to always find me somehow though, haven't figure that one out yet.

I guess at the border, I'll give them my Github account? They'll probably put me on some blacklist.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by kbart on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:05AM (#15364845)
Exactly. This is a step (or more likely - leap) towards the bizarre future portrayed in Black Mirror episode "Nosedive".

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by JustSomeNobody on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:17AM (#15364953)
Then this is crap. Yes, I have FB, but I _view_ it maybe once per month. I _post_ far less frequently. Twitter? Sure, I follow my local city tweets so I know about things like power outages and when the trees will be cleared after the hurricane.

Some of us just don't need the world to know everything about us all the time.

I'm convinced there's two types of people. Those who draw energy from other people and those of us who get peopled out after a short time and need to be alone for a while to recharge. Being social _exhausts_ me so I would rather my social interaction be in real life not making some privacy invading corporation money.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by coldtea on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:54AM (#15365805)
>I'm convinced there's two types of people. Those who draw energy from other people and those of us who get peopled out after a short time and need to be alone for a while to recharge.

Let's call them introverts and extroverts.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by jcranmer on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:48AM (#15365200)
> I'm convinced there's two types of people. Those who draw energy from other people and those of us who get peopled out after a short time and need to be alone for a while to recharge.

That is exactly the definition of extroversion in the first case versus introversion in the second case.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by sverige on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:04AM (#15364843)
Maybe 50 should be the upper bound. I'm in my fifties and have never had any sort of social media account. Many of my high school and college classmates are similarly situated. None of the major social media platforms were founded before I was in my mid-forties, which is why there was never any incentive to start any accounts.

I enjoy getting older. It spares me a lot of drama.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by cr1895 on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:08AM (#15364874)
>Maybe 50 should be the upper bound. I'm in my fifties and have never had any sort of social media account.

Are you not posting here?

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by sverige on Friday September 29, 2017 @11:18PM (#15371021)
I considered that, and had a couple of thoughts:

1. HN is not a place where I seek "likes," karma (I know some do though), or share gifs of cats. Since there is karma and some sort of static identity attached to comments, though, I suppose it could be considered a social site to some. OTOH, I do not hold a Swedish passport, and do not plan to travel to Sweden, so tying my passport or other ID to my identity here would not be obvious, unless you count the NSA or whoever having the ability to tie my real name to this account.

2. I doubt HN is on the DHS list of 'social media sites' with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and whatever other sites you kids are using these days.

P.S. Please don't misunderstand me: I love funny cat gifs. It is the main reason to allow the internet to continue to exist.

P.P.S. Yes, the above P.S. was included solely to influence border security when they crack my laptop / phone and find HN on my bookmarked sites with my login credentials saved and start scrolling through my comments here. Fortunately, I self-censor to avoid losing too much karma with any single comment, which should keep me safely in the mainstream of contemporary public mores and avoid arousing suspicion.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by jawilson2 on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:30AM (#15365046)
Hacker news is a short stone's throw from AOL chat rooms and IRC, powered by contemporaneous technology.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by gerbilly on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:16AM (#15365439)
I haven't seen the feature where HN keeps a social graph of your HN 'friends' yet.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by spraak on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:45AM (#15365165)
Can you explain how you see Hacker News as social media?
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by cr1895 on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:06AM (#15365347)
We are discussing with each other publicly on a website, sharing ideas and information. Each of us is doing so tied to an identity, such as it is. Just as we might on Reddit, facebook, instagram, etc. All are social media. HackerNews is by no means different.

In what way do you find it is not social media, or maybe I should ask how narrow is your definition of social media?

I tried to find how exactly DHS defines "social media" because that is actually what is relevant to this discussion, but I was unable. I think someone had posted their definition in one of the other threads on this topic, if you want to try to find it yourself.

Feel free to read through Wikipedia's article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by vacri on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:06PM (#15370018)
How is having an online discussion different if it's on Facebook or HN?
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by sverige on Friday September 29, 2017 @11:25PM (#15371043)
First, there's no real name policy here. Second, the quality of content and discussion is much higher here than on Facebook. Third, the HN community is tiny compared to Facebook. For starters.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by coldtea on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:51AM (#15365773)
It's a social voting website (not to mention the forum).
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by SerLava on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:12AM (#15364910)
I'm sure there would be a gradual dropoff in suspicion from about 40 to about 60 - depending on how affluent you look, and on the personal opinions of the border agent.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by amelius on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:17AM (#15364948)
I predict there will be services that make a shadow account for you. (They probably already exist).
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by fiblye on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:40AM (#15365126)
And as soon as such a service becomes available and known to the average person, it'll be shut down or else.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by crottypeter on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:51AM (#15365221)
You mean linkedIn?
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by aaron-lebo on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:05AM (#15364847)
Not sure how it could actually go that far. Some people just don't have social media accounts, you can't ban people entry for that. If that does happen, there's no way it's gonna stay legal and the simplest solution is a boycott of social media.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by omaranto on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:37AM (#15365097)
I studied mathematics in Mexico City as an undergrad and know plenty of people who tried to go to a math conference in the US but had their request for a visitor visa denied. (I've personally never been denied a US visa, and I think most of my friends have been able to go to the US whenever they want, but still plenty of people get denied.) The embassy doesn't give you a reason and there's nothing you can do about it. In the future the reason they don't tell you could easily be "It seemed fishy that he didn't have a twitter account" or "Last facebook post from a year ago? Must be a fake account". If you aren't told the reason it can be anything.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by kbart on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:09AM (#15364882)
"you can't ban people entry for that."

Who said so? Border controls have right to turn non-citizens away on border if they suspect you are lying or not disclosing all information to them.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by aaron-lebo on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:16AM (#15364945)
It'll happen on a small scale while this is working itself out, certainly, but it is hard to imagine a true defacto or dejure uniform ban on people without social media accounts.

The right gets upset over insurance requirements, hard to imagine a real requirement to have a Twitter account.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by tajen on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:21AM (#15365484)
Actually the right gets upset rather about censorship and death threats currently, but you might not have seen it in the newspapers (that's what censorship means). I discovered it when James Damore was accused of hate speech and explicitly menaced, and the same happened last week when UC Berkeley launched police investigations for "hate speech" into every student who helped the Free Speech Week on the campus. So, no, people who are supposed to defend your freedom aren't even in a position of weighing for basic rights currently, especially if it's related to Twitter.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by vidarh on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:17AM (#15364958)
> The right gets upset over insurance requirements, hard to imagine a real requirement to have a Twitter account.

The people who are affected are not voting.

EDIT: missed that it affects naturalized citizens too, but see below.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by aaron-lebo on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:22AM (#15364980)
Naturalized citizens vote.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by vidarh on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:25AM (#15365004)
I'd missed that it still affect naturalized citizens too. But by the time they've gained citizenship most of these immigrants will already have given up their information and had a long time to get accustomed to accepting this.

They also not make up nearly a large enough group for it to be likely to have much effect.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by aaron-lebo on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:26AM (#15365017)
You're right. Guess I'm trying to rationalize that something so ridiculous could never happen, but it already is...

Crazy world.

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by SerLava on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:09AM (#15364879)
It's very easy to extra-judicially deny entry at the border, without much in the way of recourse. I imagine there would be backlash against it, but it's very likely that for some period of time, travel to, from, and between specific countries will be denied to people who "refuse" to produce a social media account.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by msluyter on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:42AM (#15365685)
Where there is a problem there is (sometimes) a market opportunity: a service that periodically autoposts innocuous kitten photos into your Facebook feed, says "Happy Birthday!" to your friends, and the like.

(Might actually be an interesting project.)

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by timthelion on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:02AM (#15364827)
I just finished reading the book The Circle[1] by (Dave Eggers) with my wife, which is about just that, making it illegal not to use social media. Though some of the characters were less intelligent than I am, and thus seemed unbelievable to me (a problem I have with real people too), I recommend the book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(Eggers_novel)

Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by arvinsim on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:23AM (#15364991)
Don't watch the movie. I read halfway through the book when the movie came out. I excitedly watched it in film form. But I only ended up disappointed. It turned me off not just from the film but from the book itself.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by hmhrex on Friday September 29, 2017 @09:50AM (#15365206)
Didn't realize there was a book. I'll remember to steer clear. The book was fantastic. I remember after reading that it felt a little far-fetched, but enjoyable. That was over a year ago, and I'm finding it to be more and more accurate.
Re:U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Enter... by timthelion on Friday September 29, 2017 @10:09AM (#15365372)
You mean that you didn't realize there was a film don't you...