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Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by hood_syntax on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @03:11PM (#15084239)
It's probably safer to assume that we're pretty much screwed at keeping the status quo and we need to start researching ways for humanity to survive the resulting changes. Of course, we should still keep ongoing efforts to curb and eventually eliminate the emission of greenhouse gases in effect, but we're past the point of pretending the worst case isn't possible.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by lutorm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:11PM (#15084629)
There isn't really a "worst" case here. We can always make it worser...
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by lisper on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:18PM (#15084685)
The destruction of civilization will probably cap our ability to do further significant damage. If not, then our extinction surely will.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by stale2002 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:24PM (#15085319)
Nobody believes that global warming will cause the literal extinction of the human race.

The scientific consensus is that sea levels will rise by a couple feet over the next 2 hundred years.

That's the science. Doesn't sound like doomsday to me.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by ForHackernews on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:45PM (#15085499)
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by tempestn on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:24PM (#15086109)
The first paragraph:

> It is, I promise, worse than you think. If your anxiety about global warming is dominated by fears of sea-level rise, you are barely scratching the surface of what terrors are possible, even within the lifetime of a teenager today. And yet the swelling seas — and the cities they will drown — have so dominated the picture of global warming, and so overwhelmed our capacity for climate panic, that they have occluded our perception of other threats, many much closer at hand. Rising oceans are bad, in fact very bad; but fleeing the coastline will not be enough.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by fencepost on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:14PM (#15086482)
The annotated version with links to source data is probably a better option to link.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-...

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by stale2002 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @11:57PM (#15087481)
The guy is talking about 10 degrees C scenarios, aka scenarios that nobody believes is going to happen.

The IPCC, which is the official authority on climate change, believes that there will be 2-3 degrees C increase in temperature over the next century.

When someone can rationally talk about what will happen in the IPCC predicted scenarios, which is the scientific consensus, then I will listen to them.

If you are some crank, who is talking about 1000 parts per million of C02, and 10 degrees C temp increase by 2100, well then you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by fencepost on Friday August 25, 2017 @05:59PM (#15102566)
I haven't gone back to re-read for this, but I believe 10 degrees is presented as a worst-case scenario because if we hit that it's pretty much game over.

The part you may want starts around footnote 20, in a paragraph that notes 4 degrees as a median projection from the IPCC, with up to 8 degrees at the high end of the curve without factoring in permafrost melt and its associated carbon release or any of a variety of other exacerbating factors (footnoted in the article).

There are ways to calculate how much effort or expense is reasonable to attempt to mitigate a risk, I believe that's often part of the job description of actuaries. Part of it involves figuring out what the cost is if the event in question happens, then what the likelihood of the event is.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by arnoooooo on Saturday August 26, 2017 @02:14AM (#15104311)
It's already game over if we hit 5-6 degrees. See for instance http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2015/decem...
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by ForHackernews on Thursday August 24, 2017 @02:31AM (#15088063)
Elsewhere in this thread, it's been stated that the IPCC has omitted runaway positive-feedback loop scenarios from their predictions, either because they're too poorly understood, or because they're too depressing.

The doomsday scenarios may be uncertain, but they do not (to my layman's understand) seem impossible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by stale2002 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @11:53PM (#15087469)
That article is wrong on a number of facts.

For example, it explicitly mentions 10 degrees C of warming over the next century.

A 10 degrees C scenario is not something that any respectable scientist believes is going to happen.

The IPCC, which is the official authority on climate change, believes that there will be a 2-3 degrees C increase in temperature over the next century.

Thats the facts. Please listen to the scientists. Every single doomsday prediction that this guy is making, can be traced back to this fundamental problem that he is talking about scenarios that the experts and the scientists do NOT believe has even a remote chance of happening.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by FrozenVoid on Thursday August 24, 2017 @12:58AM (#15087695)
Such short-term warming due methane clathrates is certainly possible. A study based on a coupled climate–carbon cycle model (GCM) assessed a 1000-fold (from <1 to 1000 ppmv) methane increase - within a single pulse, from methane hydrates (based on carbon amount estimates for the PETM, with ~2000 GtC), and concluded it would increase atmospheric temperatures by >6 °C within 80 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis#Model...
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by arnoooooo on Thursday August 24, 2017 @02:49AM (#15088139)
http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2015/decem...

"a sufficiently large warming (roughly estimated as 5–6 ◦C, see Robinson 2000) would inevitably lead to an ecological disaster resulting in a complete depletion of oxygen."

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by notfromhere on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @06:03PM (#15085618)
we have 7 billion people with a new billion every decade. 1-2C differences in temperature are going to have a huge impact on agriculture.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by mirimir on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:56PM (#15085037)
Yes, that's the fundamental negative feedback on anthropogenic carbon emissions.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by 2OEH8eoCRo on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:36PM (#15084839)
We need to invent fusion like yesterday and use that to power efforts to extract CO2 from the atmosphere.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by Florin_Andrei on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:46PM (#15084925)
I'm a big proponent of huge increases in funding for fusion research. But I think a better "extreme measures" project to mitigate global warming is the space sunshade:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by afarrell on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:41PM (#15085459)
The problem is that will raise the price of agricultural commodities. I think we might be better off trying to genetically engineer varieties of Algae to be more efficient.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by simonh on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:24PM (#15085311)
The fusion Manhattan project? The problem with that is the Manhattan project scientists knew exactly what they wanted to do and how to do it. With fusion research there are already dozens of active research efforts, but we have absolutely no idea if any of them will work, or if we need a new approach nobody has thought of. In this situation throwing money at the problem simply isn't the solution.

Meanwhile new solar infrastructure projects are already cheaper than coal. This is a problem that technology is already solving for us.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by yongjik on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @06:02PM (#15085614)
I don't think scientists in the Manhattan project knew exactly how to do it. That's why they ended up having (at least) two totally different types of bombs, one with a Plutonium core using spherical implosion and another with a Uranium core using cannon-like ignition.

Why try one scheme when you can try two at twice the price?

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by simonh on Thursday August 24, 2017 @02:57AM (#15088177)
But both worked fine. So yes, they really did know what they were doing. The reason to do two versions wasn't really in case one didn't work, they had very good reason to believe both would work. It was a matter of which would offer the best combination of efficient fission, weight, cost and reliability. We do not have two clearly viable different routes to practical fusion reactors. We don't even have one at this point.
Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by sedachv on Thursday August 24, 2017 @02:43AM (#15088119)
> With fusion research there are already dozens of active research efforts, but we have absolutely no idea if any of them will work, or if we need a new approach nobody has thought of.

That is the definition of research. Once something is discovered that works, it is called development.

> In this situation throwing money at the problem simply isn't the solution.

Why is funding fundamental physics research a bad idea?

> Meanwhile new solar infrastructure projects are already cheaper than coal. This is a problem that technology is already solving for us.

Technology does not solve anything "for us," we choose to develop and apply technology. We can decide to spend resources on solar and wind electricity generation and to fund fusion research.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by simonh on Thursday August 24, 2017 @03:04AM (#15088199)
>Why is funding fundamental physics research a bad idea?

It's not a bad idea and we are doing it. Fundamental research into fusion is happening on many fronts. That is a good thing and I am not arguing against it. There may even be good arguments to increase funding on some of those approaches.

I'm saying that a 'huge' increase in funding, as proposed, at this stage would be premature given that there are plenty of other alternative power technologies that are proving very effective. We already spend billions of dollars on fusion research. If we're going to spend huge amounts of extra funding on power generation, there are better ways to use it right now.

>We can decide to spend resources on solar and wind electricity generation and to fund fusion research

What do you think we should hugely cut spending on in order to fund this huge increase? Proposals to spend lots of money on this or that are somewhat unconvincing unless you can explain where the money should come from.

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by sedachv on Friday August 25, 2017 @03:52AM (#15096896)
> What do you think we should hugely cut spending on in order to fund this huge increase? Proposals to spend lots of money on this or that are somewhat unconvincing unless you can explain where the money should come from.

That is actually the easy part. Latest numbers I have seen are from 2009, when the US government paid farmers $5 billion to waste their time growing corn to turn into ethanol (basically to turn 1 barrel of oil into 0.7 barrels of oil equivalent), and paid oil and gas companies $7 billion in oil and gas exploration subsidies. Enough money for huge increases in both renewable energy and fusion research programs:

http://www.eli.org/sites/default/files/eli-pubs/d19_07.pdf

Re:Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide int... by gwbas1c on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:45PM (#15084905)
We can just use Fusion to drop a giant ice cube in the Arctic, just like in Futurama.