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Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by S_A_P on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:08AM (#15028042)
From my outside looking in perspective, it seems the gold rush is waning in the Bay Area. There will always be a pretty healthy tech industry there but anecdotal evidence tells me that fewer people are heading west to make it big in startups. This is probably a good thing for everyone except real estate speculators though.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by stevenwoo on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:33AM (#15028292)
I own and am considering selling to retire (versus going to work to finish paying off the mortgage), it's kind of crazy real estate wise out here - the amount that zillow/redfin reports as positive home appreciation every month feels like more than the last bubble. Maybe the bubble is about to burst, but I don't know how to determine that.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by nfriedly on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @04:03PM (#15030811)
First, congratulations!

Second, don't try to "time the bubble". Instead think about your goals. What do you actually want, and what is best for you (and your family if applicable). What's going to make your life more meaningful? What would make it a better story if someone were to tell it?

If cashing in now and moving someplace cheaper is in line with your goals, then do it!

If staying put and finishing off the mortgage is a better match, then so be it.

Lastly, financial independence doesn't have to mean not working. I'm still 10-15 years away from that point, but I certainly plan to keep working well after I have enough to retire. I'll just have a bit more flexibility in what I choose to work on.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by gozur88 on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:36PM (#15028875)
Bubbles always take far longer to burst than you'd think, but when it happens, it happens fast.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by sjg007 on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @01:11PM (#15029199)
I look at median salary, median home price, median rent and debt levels. Then again Google and Facebook print money...
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by regularfry on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:13AM (#15028083)
I'd be intrigued to know how much of that is because of remote working, and how much is because of traditional jobs growing in other places (and, of course, how much is people not doing startups). My gut says that remote working isn't big enough to cause this sort of shift, but I'd love to know if I'm wrong.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by juandg on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:32AM (#15028288)
The Bay Area has a pretty bad remote work culture. The vast majority of companies prefer if you’re physically here. Sure you can work from home or work remote while traveling for a few weeks, but for some insane reason most companies insist on your home base being here in the Bay Area. I’m sure there are notable exceptions and some people will disagree with me, but after 5 years here I’ve experienced first hand the aversion to remote work suffered by most Bay Area companies.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by pcsanwald on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @01:15PM (#15029251)
I'll make an observation that no one else has in this thread:

Effectively managing an organization that is at least partially remote is more difficult, and my experience in the Bay Area is that management skill is often overlooked and underdeveloped, particularly in startups.

I've seen several companies with very very competent technical founders, very capable engineering team, and not one person in the company that can manage their way out of a brown paper bag. The only way for that kind of structure to work is having everyone in the same room.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by borski on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:41AM (#15028370)
Oh come on, you must know it's not just "some insane reason."

A culture of remote work takes a lot of discipline, as it's so easy to have an in-person conversation, make a seemingly small decision at the time, and immediately the remote workers feel out of the loop.

Remote work is actually /hard/ to support, and a company has to make it a priority to do it well and be disciplined about writing down all communication. Otherwise, they're setting up their remote employees for failure, which nobody wants.

Also, there are things a remote worker just can't do; stand at a whiteboard and evaluate paths forward, for example. If a company values that sort of collaboration above anything else, it is certainly not "insane" to want people in the office.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by gozur88 on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:47PM (#15028982)
I work on a big company with offices all over the US. My team is spread out over five different offices (which is pretty impressive given there are only seven of us). There's not much difference between being the only one on your team at your location and working from home.

While it's true you have to have software and processes in place to communicate, it is doable.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by borski on Thursday August 17, 2017 @06:18AM (#15035315)
I didn't say it was impossible. Plenty of companies do it successfully. All I said was it isn't /insane/ to not want to do it.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by artursapek on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:38PM (#15028895)
> Also, there are things a remote worker just can't do; stand at a whiteboard and evaluate paths forward, for example. If a company values that sort of collaboration above anything else, it is certainly not "insane" to want people in the office.

In my experience, meetings like this are more often than not a huge waste of time. Since I started working remotely I am less distracted and more productive, and have no trouble collaborating with other devs.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by maxxxxx on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:50PM (#15029007)
I agree. I contracted with a pure remote company for a while and we had less scheduled meetings but actually collaborated more. The one thing the remote company didn't have was the project management types who call meetings all the time like in my current job.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by borski on Thursday August 17, 2017 @06:18AM (#15035312)
Great, if all you're given is a set of requirements. If you're trying to figure out what a product should do, look like, or build a larger system, a whiteboard is invaluable. Most of those meetings aren't scheduled, either.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by sidlls on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:48AM (#15028419)
Your last point is one I'd take a step further. The kind of collaboration you describe is necessary for non trivial products. So for them, at least for the people working on the harder problems, 100% remote just isn't feasible.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:57AM (#15028504)
Non-trivial projects aren't very common even in the bay area.

Edit: I just got out of a meeting with someone in eastern Europe. An extra $20 for a camera pointed at the whiteboard solves the collaboration problem 90% of the way.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by sidlls on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @01:32PM (#15029414)
I certainly agree with that. The Bay Area takes itself too seriously in this respect.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by x220 on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:17PM (#15028692)
You can do whiteboard collaboration with a web app and voice chat.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by maxxxxx on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:51PM (#15029014)
Not really. A big whiteboard is still much better. It's surprising to me that this hasn't been solved a long time ago.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by Eugr on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @02:28PM (#15029892)
One can buy a MS Surface or iPad Pro (or Wacom tablet for PC/laptop) and share a virtual whiteboard via webex/gotomeeting/etc. Remote work can be incredibly efficient. It is easier for new companies/teams to start as remote vs. switching existing team to support remote work, but it can be done.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by delphinius81 on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:29AM (#15028251)
Other cities with much better cost of living are gaining reputation in tech / start-ups and attracting talent (or just keeping the talent that went to school there).
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by sidlls on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @11:49AM (#15028432)
Really? Which ones?
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by jknoepfler on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:01PM (#15028554)
Minneapolis springs immediately to mind. Companies like Amazon are opening dev offices in medium-sized American cities now as well, because importing everyone into Seattle or Boston isn't sustainable. From my experiences in places like Minneapolis and Cincinnati, I'd project a pretty serious difussion of tech talent back into the Midwest.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by sidlls on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @01:39PM (#15029466)
I've interviewed with "tech" companies in some of the cities you mentioned. The compensation was substantially lower than anything I can get in the Bay Area (by about a factor of 2 compared to my current compensation, for example). The CoL adjustment wouldn't be greater than the reduced savings rate.

These companies need to realize that the market rate for the kinds of engineering and talent they demand is set in the bigger cities, not their little slice of the Midwest. I understand why they're doing it, but for all the issues in the Bay Area the opportunities are still better than almost anywhere else and so is the pay.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by icebraining on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @03:12PM (#15030263)
Amazon does have 29 positions open in Minneapolis. On the other hand, they have 187 positions in Palo Alto plus 185 in San Francisco. And 7260 in Seattle.
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by chadgeidel on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @03:55PM (#15030704)
Denver/Boulder. Google just opened a big office up here and there are several incubators here as well.

Housing costs are eye-watering from my perspective, but cheap for someone from SV or even Seattle.

Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by vanattab on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @12:10PM (#15028634)
Philly, Columbus, Atlanta,Austin
Re:83 percent of Bay Area renters plan to leave, says survey by notfromhere on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @02:57PM (#15030134)
Chicago