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Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 27, 2017 @03:52PM (#14868805)
I'm very happy to see SciHub going strong - for all the obvious reasons. Now let's just hope they back up to IPFS (if they do, I'll happily pin some of it).

I want to go off a tangent here, though. Now that open access (whether arXiv or SciHub style) is becoming the norm, I wonder what can be done to improve the format of scientific papers? Like e.g. making them more like this:

http://worrydream.com/ScientificCommunicationAsSequentialArt...

instead of regular PDFs?

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by lucb1e on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:04PM (#14868918)
I don't know what that link is, but after 10 seconds of loading over LTE I gave up in favor of my data bundle. I hope it doesn't go towards whatever that is.

Personally I'm a big fan of blog posts: they're written for a broader audience in understandable language. I don't have any trouble reading English, but papers are almost universally written in a way that is more complicated than necessary. And in blog posts, if someone made a "novel new algorithm", at least you can be sure there's code, raw test data, screenshots, or whatever else is needed to DIY. And someone on the web is talking about it, perhaps even with comments below the post itself.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:09PM (#14868978)
The link is to the Bret Victor's rewrite of a scientific paper, in which he introduces illustrations and interactivity for the important (and difficult) points of the paper.

I edited the link to the more "lightweight" version (i.e. just the page, without loading his entire homepage as well, which is kind of heavy), so please consider trying again.

I agree with you RE blog posts, and the point of me linking to Bret Victor's work is to give an example of a form that's better-suited to the media we operate with today. Papers still live in the paper age (pun not intended).

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by groby_b on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:49PM (#14869345)
I love Bret's work, but I consider this rewrite pretty much entirely unreadable. I'm sure it's great for skimming - what with the bolding, and the flood of pictures - but that's not the point of scientific papers.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by tomjakubowski on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:32PM (#14870282)
It would be better with a layout that flowed only from top to bottom. Reading text mixed with diagrams left-to-right, and then top-to-bottom, is hard, as you point out.

Since Bret has liberated the scientific article from paper, we may as well take advantage of the more flexible layout possible with digital media. Interactive diagrams are so nice for learning that I think it's worth pursuing Victor's idea further. Fred Akalin's blog has a couple great examples! https://www.akalin.com/quintic-unsolvability

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by jtmcmc on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:25PM (#14869736)
scientific papers and general blog posts have completely different audiences and intentions.

The purpose of a paper is to be rigorous and exact and move the field of study forward. That tends to make them dense and use the fields jargon - which is short hand for massive amounts of information.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by Fordrus on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:20PM (#14870171)
While this is partially true, it is also DEFINITELY true that there is a large amount of academic posturing going on in the field of Molecular Biology, at least. I've read MANY papers that could've been both more exactly and more simply written if they'd avoided needless jargon. Yet my own experience with it indicates that they probably had to put in the jargon in order to get published- so much so that they may have been required to do a re-write or two to insert more 'academic language' to get accepted. Quite annoying.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by civilitty on Friday July 28, 2017 @12:16AM (#14871922)
Academic posturing is a superficial criticism, at least in the life sciences. I've spent far more time trying to replicate intermediate protocols in peer reviewed papers than I've spent trying to understand their data and conclusions. If it weren't for ambitious undergrads and PhD candidates, I'd spend most of my time identifying why one manufacturer's reagents failed but another's didn't than actually doing research or writing grants.

The problem isn't the jargon itself, it's the fact that most labs have built up decades of institutional knowledge that they hoard for fear of their research being "scooped." I'm just thankful I don't work in downstream medical research anymore, where the number of replicable papers goes from one in two to one in ten, at best.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by Fordrus on Friday July 28, 2017 @02:06AM (#14872322)
I agree the the posturing is not the essence of the infection, and didn't mean to communicate that. It does make wading through papers substantially more difficult, however, and that is a sincere and severe annoyance, though the tendency to hoard knowledge for fear of being scooped is a greater one.

Your comment about reagents from one manufacturer failing while another succeeded brings back fond memories of trying to make our own botulinum neurotoxin to study neurons- and the rest about hoarding institutional knowledge reminds me why I tried to get out of that. I was one of those ambitious undergrads, but I permitted myself to wilt under the insanity of a system in which I KNEW that a partnered laboratory knew exactly what to do, but they were forbidden to share the knowledge because of politics. By the time I had cut through the wasteful uselessness, I discovered that the only sane person there, one who had been willing to share knowledge, she had actually DIED.

And so I merrily skipped over to the bioinformatics department, which has issues as well but in which I was able to manage them fairly effectively. :D

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by lbeltrame on Friday July 28, 2017 @12:56AM (#14872080)
> The problem isn't the jargon itself, it's the fact that most labs have built up decades of institutional knowledge that they hoard for fear of their research being "scooped."

Unfortunately it's the same for software and algorithms (at least in bioinformatics, which is my field). Everything is treated like closely guarded secrets, at least in the smaller environments.

Thankfully the tendency is slowly being reversed and there are even things developed out in the open: the "problem" with those is that being in the open, it's harder to get publications out.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by adrianratnapala on Thursday July 27, 2017 @10:41PM (#14871532)
Yep even well written papers will be dense and jargonistic for laymen -- and it is childish to expect everything to be well written.

But imagine if the incentives of scholars somehow shift so that they look less to funding committees and more to the audiences of blogs and magazine articles. I think such a shift would do more good than harm.

Scholars would still write serious papers to establish their reputation amongst each-other, but insofar as they rush to publish, I'd rather they pump out accessible blog style articles than the kind of gibberish that is made today in order to inflate the citation metrics.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by visarga on Friday July 28, 2017 @12:31AM (#14871977)
You might be referring to a different field that I usually read, but "the kind of gibberish" that is in papers is much more clear and exact than blog-style hand wavy explanations.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by mathperson on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:44PM (#14870776)
When you say blog posts I assume you don't mean something like the OP?

you mean something like https://terrytao.wordpress.com/

or

https://blogs.princeton.edu/imabandit/

Then yes I think these are a very valuable and increasingly important part of the scientific process. I think you might benefit from labelling the blog as 'math blog' which is quite distinct from the original link.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by tnecniv on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:02PM (#14870030)
> I don't have any trouble reading English, but papers are almost universally written in a way that is more complicated than necessary.

This is a function of two things. The first is that venues often have strict page limits for their submissions. Authors typically have a lot to say and not a lot of space to say it, so they pick language that is precise, dense, and typically colorless. The second is that every domain has a lot of style and nomenclature that the layman won't know. It can be learned, but you must remember scientists write for each other, not for the layman.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by lucb1e on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:44PM (#14870362)
The first point: fair enough. I'd still see that as a shortcoming of the medium and something to be solved (rather than "just the way it is"), but that's reasonable.

The second: I was talking about reading papers from my own field. That I don't understand a Biology paper (which indeed I don't -- I've tried) is perfectly understandable, but infosec papers shouldn't (and don't) contain any unknown lingo to me. It's just a very convoluted way of writing.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by visarga on Friday July 28, 2017 @12:33AM (#14871991)
Regarding short dense papers: have you seen the infamous SELU paper? It's got an epic 93 page appendix.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.02515

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by seszett on Friday July 28, 2017 @02:25AM (#14872378)
> I don't know what that link is, but after 10 seconds of loading over LTE I gave up in favor of my data bundle.

The whole thing is 283 kB and half of that is due to three small images that are already compressed as much as is possible (but that are actually part of the comment about the paper formatting, not the paper itself).

That seems very reasonable for a scientific paper which would have been about the same size as a PDF.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by TeMPOraL on Friday July 28, 2017 @02:32AM (#14872402)
It's my fault. The link originally was this:

http://worrydream.com/#!/ScientificCommunicationAsSequential...

which loads the article... plus the entire homepage of Bret Victor, which is kind of heavy.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by jdietrich on Friday July 28, 2017 @09:03AM (#14873928)
We don't need fancy graphics - we need all the data, always.

The primary shortcoming of current scientific papers is that they're too short. They're written to physically fit into a paper journal, but their brevity massively impairs efforts to validate and replicate research. We're taught in high school science class that a paper should include all the information needed to replicate a study, but in practice that simply isn't true. Our methods of publication haven't kept pace with the complexity of modern research and analysis methods. Failure to replicate and research misconduct is eroding the foundations of science.

In 2017, the appendices of a paper should include everything - the full dataset, complete lab notes, full source code, the works.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by afandian on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:23PM (#14869721)
Can I push back on the notion that "open access" can constitute pirated material (any more than the leaked Windows 2000 code makes Windows "open source"). Conflating the two things has been an anti-OA tactic in the past.

(Disclaimer: Posting in a personal capacity.)

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by kazinator on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:01PM (#14870026)
Makes no difference if you aren't planning to redistribute the code or document (possibly as the basis of a derived work).

If you could get the Windows source code with some paid subscription program, so that it's not pirated, it still wouldn't be open source. It would be more like "open access".

Open source means we can modify it and share our modified version, and even charge for it.

Most users of scientific papers aren't looking to extend those papers and redistribute modified copies; they just read them privately and make citations (which nobody can tell whether they were from a licensed or pirated copy).

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by afandian on Friday July 28, 2017 @02:54AM (#14872477)
I was drawing analogy between two unconnected situations not saying they were equivalent. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by LambdaComplex on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:41PM (#14870344)
No, it would be open source. There's the source code. It's open; anyone can go look at it. Whether or not you can modify it without violating a license has nothing to do with whether or not you can read it.

And this is exactly why Richard Stallman doesn't like the term. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by schoen on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:58PM (#14870867)
That article describes this as a misunderstanding:

> The official definition of “open source software” (which is published by the Open Source Initiative and is too long to include here) was derived indirectly from our criteria for free software. [...]

> However, the obvious meaning for the expression “open source software”—and the one most people seem to think it means—is “You can look at the source code.” That criterion is much weaker than the free software definition, much weaker also than the official definition of open source. It includes many programs that are neither free nor open source.

> Since the obvious meaning for “open source” is not the meaning that its advocates intend, the result is that most people misunderstand the term.

That is, Stallman is criticizing "open source" for being, among other things, easy to misunderstand as not requiring free software licensing — even though it does, in fact, require free software licensing.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by cyphar on Friday July 28, 2017 @11:22AM (#14874886)
That's not the OSI definition, and your Richard Stallman quote isn't saying what you think it's saying.

It's saying that one of the problems with "open source" is that you can make the same mistake you just made (thinking that being able to see the source code makes it "open source").

Richard Stallman's primary issue with "open source" is that they intentionally avoid talking about issues of software freedom, and have consistently muddied the waters by co-opting free software as "open source".

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by Retra on Thursday July 27, 2017 @11:04PM (#14871621)
Just because the term is confusing doesn't mean you are obligated to be confused by it.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by schoen on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:58PM (#14869997)
I think more precisely you mean that unauthorized copies aren't "open access" in the usual sense of the OA movement (and many people want OA to be achieved through official licensing, not unofficial distribution). That is, it's the unauthorized copies that aren't OA.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by evv555 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:07PM (#14869540)
>Now let's just hope they back up to IPFS (if they do, I'll happily pin some of it).

Looks like they've gone in the opposite direction. Access to the torrent repository is no longer available. The only way to download articles now is by clicking through ads.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by Arkanosis on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:24PM (#14869730)
The torrent repository is available on libgen.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by evv555 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:32PM (#14869799)
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by aw3c2 on Saturday July 29, 2017 @08:02AM (#14880754)
The older dump is still available via https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/11674459/The_Library_Genesi... at least
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by aplaice on Friday July 28, 2017 @09:28AM (#14874073)
By any chance, do you know what the rationale for this change is?

If the torrent repository were gone permanently, it would be extremely sad, since it's (AFAIK) the only way of having automated and/or bulk download of papers, for example for data mining — sci-hub.io is understandably not really suited for this.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by evv555 on Friday July 28, 2017 @07:49PM (#14878518)
>By any chance, do you know what the rationale for this change is?

No I tried to pose the same question recently on the forum but it's locked down for new users. At best it has something to do with recent litigation. At worst they're being hypocritical and seeking that sweet ad dollar. I agree that the current situation is only marginally better than the status quo.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by andrepd on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:51PM (#14870408)
What about the link you posted? It's... a paper with uncomfortably wide lines that hurt readability and grey text (why is it always grey) which ditto. The only interesting thing are the animations, but that's only really useful in a small percentage of works (even here it comes off as gimmicky) and you can just link it in the paper anyway.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by GuiA on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:16PM (#14869040)
> I wonder what can be done to improve the format of scientific papers?

See the Distill initiative, for one direction:

https://distill.pub

HN discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13915808

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by avip on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:02PM (#14869488)
I don't know but _please_ let be something I can print on real paper and sketch on.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by wongarsu on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:51PM (#14869373)
I prefer PDFs. Easy to read, easy to print, no weird layout.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by bloaf on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:11PM (#14870559)
They're pretty bad for meta-scientific research. That is, they are very much a for-human-eyeballs-only format.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by 3131s on Thursday July 27, 2017 @11:55PM (#14871842)
Agreed, I've download parts of the sci-hub archive and want to analyze the articles but I can never even get a decent solution for extracting multilingual text. I've tried the well-known open source tools for this and none have really been satisfactory.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by codegladiator on Friday July 28, 2017 @06:28AM (#14873226)
Try narrowing down to papers in English only ? Why try to deal with a problem which has no feasible solution for now ?
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by andybak on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:31PM (#14869794)
I hate PDFs. Hard to read, don't own a printer, weird layout.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by davesque on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:57PM (#14869990)
I hate hating PDFs. Hard to not read, don't not own a printer, unweird layout. Disagreeing is fun. Did I do it right?
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by andybak on Saturday July 29, 2017 @09:11PM (#14883877)
I actually meant what I said, though.

HTML (in some reasonable form) is my favourite format for reading text.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by scrollaway on Thursday July 27, 2017 @03:59PM (#14868882)
Improving and advocating for standard methods of data publishing accompanying scientific papers would be great. That and promoting open source (including open-sourcing the papers themselves, as in the source text and algorithms used to generate the accompanying resources etc).
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by gogopuppygogo on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:16PM (#14869042)
An interactive/collaborative standard for viewing, annotating, and sharing notes is really needed in this space. The technology exists to sit on top of the PDF files that are already created but a new standard to write and publish content is needed.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by neuromantik8086 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:02PM (#14870039)
Funnily enough, I've been thinking lately that it might be nice for journals to publish annotated Jupyter notebooks or similar instead of conventional prose-based methods sections.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by kijin on Thursday July 27, 2017 @10:17PM (#14871409)
In the short term, .tex might be the most realistic option. It's not exactly the most accessible format, but a lot of people already use it so it's less additional work.

It's plain text so you can throw parsers at it to extract text, data, and formulae. It can be automatically converted into HTML for online display, PDF for downloading, etc. It's not pretty, of course, but we already have plenty of experience parsing and extracting useful information from another widely used format that mixes semantics and presentation all over the place, so why not?

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by R_haterade on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:01PM (#14870482)
Poster sessions at conferences have traditionally filled this role. I view any enhancement along this form as an evolution of that form of communication.

PDF's are a danged-sight easier to organize for research as well, IMO.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @03:57PM (#14868863)
I came here to say the exact same thing. A friend and I made a pinning service two weeks ago (www.eternum.io) and we'd be happy to donate some space/bandwidth by pinning a subset of the papers.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by ccozan on Friday July 28, 2017 @04:07AM (#14872768)
Isn't this a problem that Xanadu[1] is trying to solve?

[1] http://www.xanadu.net/

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by tnecniv on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:59PM (#14870003)
Writing papers as they are now is already a labor-intensive and arduous process. That link is great [1], but producing such a thing would add quite a bit of time to the paper cycle. Besides, many people still like to print papers out...

[1] because it's Bret Victor, of course

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by chmike on Friday July 28, 2017 @05:13AM (#14872977)
Have you looked at [eLife](https://elifesciences.org/articles/29763) article format ? Their tools are open source. It's very impressive.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by igravious on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:07PM (#14868958)
whither the university?

(1) MOOCs - student does not need to pay exorbitant tuition fees

(2) Sci-Hub - student does not need access to a university library

(3) ? universal accreditation - this piece is missing

===

idea for start-up: aggregate MOOCs, package instructions on how to retrieve information online, connect instructors and tutors to students, arrange accreditation, offer BA, MA, PhD programs, we have start-ups in every industry but higher level education, could it be possible? …

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by TheOtherHobbes on Friday July 28, 2017 @03:40AM (#14872650)
>arrange accreditation

This will turn out to be harder than it appears. The accreditation process is complex, expensive, and bureaucratic - possibly by design.

PhDs accreditation would be particularly complicated. PhDs are partly a form of academic hazing and lineage development and very much not just about the research/content.

Unfortunately education is more of a political problem than an information redistribution problem.

Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by Eridrus on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:54PM (#14869975)
MOOCs are very spotty. You may be able to do this for some of CS, but it would be tough to put together a complete high quality degree in anything else.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by sjy on Sunday July 30, 2017 @07:01AM (#14885429)
MOOCs are not very useful for any kind of science that requires lab access, and Sci-Hub is not very useful for any kind of scholarly material that's not scientific, so I'd say universities are still far from obsolete.
Re:Sci-Hub’s cache of pirated papers is so big, subscription... by hgyjgsz3577 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:42PM (#14870767)
One example of an attempt to improve the formatting and sharing of scientific research beyond paywalled PDFs: https://andrewgyork.github.io/rescan_line_sted/ https://andrewgyork.github.io/publication_template/