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Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by zython on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:16AM (#14831741)
Lately I've been having this feeling that the pseudo science of nutrition (not talking about the researchers but the food and lifestyle artists on social media) makes it very hard to find out what a good diet is and what isnt.

Meat ? Bad unless it isnt. Dairy and Eggs ? Even worse except when it isnt. Vegan/vegetarian nutrition ? The worst except, you guessed it, when it isnt.

If you dont believe me just google any food and try to find out a general consensus about it. A lot of these sites talk about facts without sources, use terms like "toxins" without going into detail about what exactly they are etc.pp.

Thoughts ?

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by tomxor on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:32AM (#14831775)
I know what you mean, and my answer probably wont be very satisfying to you: Use common sense, eat what your grandma tells you (if you have a good grandma), ignore all the crap on the internet which is 90% confusing rubbish (with the exception of some scientific studies which can be insightful but not necessarily anything to base a diet on).

Try to cook your own food at least half the time and have a balanced intake (just the basics: meat + veg + fruit), if you stick to natural unprocessed foods it's pretty hard to go wrong, avoid sugary treats and highly processed food as much as possible, that's basically all you need to know (sounds pretty obvious because it's common sense).

The fad diets and contradicting advice do not arise out of a failure of your grandmas advice, they arise out of supermarket foods, high sugar, high carbs, ready meals etc. Same with the obesity epidemic, it does not come from lack of will power to not eat like most people think, it comes from the laziness and temptation that we all get from supermarkets.

I try to cook at least half the time and keep an eye on my tendency to be lured by what is becoming way over half of supermarket isles these days (sugar and carb packed processed shit), go to the meat and veg isles out of habit don't even walk down the others unless you want to treat yourself (sugar is a treat not an everyday thing).

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by KitDuncan on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:26PM (#14833025)
My grandpa ate meat and dairy every day and died after his forth stroke at 70. He had his first stroke at 50, but never even considered changing his diet. My grandma is obese on a similar diet and probably won't make it much longer.

My mom ate the a same since an early age and had very high cholesterol and the doctors warned her that she is on a similar course as my grandpa if she didn't change her diet.

I've since convinced her of going on a plant based diet and I am planning her meals. Her cholesterol has been decimated, she lost a ton of weight and feels way better now.

Am I a qualified nutrionist? No. Am I feeding her the diet my grandma ate. Fuck no. Where did I get my information? Plenty of peer-reviewed studies. There is no denying that dietary cholesterol is a killer and cutting out meat and dairy is probably the healthiest option for the majority of the population.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by jm2721 on Sunday July 23, 2017 @01:49PM (#14833432)
I feel like you're omitting some key points here. You say they ate meat and dairy every day. Practically everybody eats meat and dairy every day, but not everybody has high cholesterol or an increased risk of heart disease (note that those are separate concerns, as CVD happens in people with low cholesterol as well). If I have a glass of milk with cereal in the morning, and a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch on white bread, I've already had two servings of dairy and a serving of meat. But I've also had one or two servings of a sugary breakfast cereal and two slices of white bread (both of which are about as nutritionally void as candy). Those are the really harmful factors here.

I believe you when you say they lost weight on an all plant diet. But I think you're probably attributing their success to the wrong thing. Correlation != causation. People on a diet would never dream of having refined carbohydrates or too much sugar, because those are universally understood to be bad for you (even if it's just the 'empty calories' argument). They just so happened to also stop eating any animal products. So I don't think you can target the meat and dairy and just claim that removing them is "probably the healthiest option for the majority of the population". Rotten thinking like this is what got us into this catastrophic obesity epidemic in the first place.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by tomjakubowski on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:39PM (#14833098)
> Plenty of peer-reviewed studies. There is no denying that dietary cholesterol is a killer and cutting out meat and dairy is probably the healthiest option for the majority of the population.

Yeah, except that the pendulum is swinging the other way now. http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/panel-suggests-stop-warni...

"There’s a growing consensus among nutrition scientists that cholesterol in food has little effect on the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream. And that’s the cholesterol that matters."

which is exactly the phenomenon GGP commenter zython was describing.

edit: "dietary cholesterol != blood cholesterol" was even in the popular culture ca. 1995, see "Homer the Great" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZkCXbbEJw

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by fredsir on Sunday July 23, 2017 @05:28PM (#14834501)
It doesn't has as high an effect as saturated fat, no, but it still has a negative effect, and fact of the matter is that we need to consume zero dietary cholesterol, so every time we do, that is a negative action towards the goal of health.

Another thing to note is that often the case is that food that is high in cholesterol is also high in saturated fat, both things that affect ldl cholesterol levels in a negative way.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by charlesdm on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:45AM (#14831809)
Personal experience: I lost some weight using a low carb diet, and now I'm slowly switching back. Basically I've cut back on everything processed, because frankly most of it is garbage.

Cooking using good quality foods (veg + fresh fish and/or meat) does a lot + I feel much better. If I do go for a sugary treats, then it's some good quality artisanal chocolate instead of mass produced crap.

One downside: I noticed my bi-weekly shopping bills to have definitely gone up. Probably spend double or even triple now what I spent before. But hey, you only live once.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by sundvor on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:57AM (#14831844)
> I noticed my bi-weekly shopping bills to have definitely gone up.

On the flip side, that might be a very cheap investment for your health vs future medical bills, lost productivity due to illness / lethargy etc, etc.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by DiThi on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:10AM (#14831895)
> One downside: I noticed my bi-weekly shopping bills to have definitely gone up.

Mine has gone down after switching to eggs as default go-to food.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by charlesdm on Sunday July 23, 2017 @09:52AM (#14832250)
Low carb or not, I can't believe eating 40+ eggs a week is healthy. Balance it out, yo! Plus, while I like eggs (a lot), they do get boring after a while. There are only so many different ways to prepare them.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by fian on Tuesday July 25, 2017 @01:48AM (#14845395)
Beyond boredom, many people will develop bad body odor from the choline in eggs:

https://nutritionfacts.org/2014/08/19/how-eggs-can-impact-bo...

My partner eats boiled eggs daily for breakfast and at one point I tried to switch to having 2 eggs for breakfast every couple of days. I rapidly developed an unpleasant body odor that went away when I stopped having eggs so frequently. So daily eggs is not be a viable solution for everyone.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by DiThi on Friday July 28, 2017 @08:14AM (#14873642)
Thanks for that link. There's not enough literature showing the adverse effects of eggs and meat that are not linked to fat and cholesterol.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by DiThi on Sunday July 23, 2017 @01:37PM (#14833371)
> I can't believe eating 40+ eggs a week is healthy.

I've started precisely after reading the studies that find no correlation between consumed cholesterol and its levels in blood. Also when I found out that the vast majority of cholesterol in blood is made in the body to match the levels it needs. Also when I found out the link between heart disease and LDL levels couldn't be proven.

Of course, I eat them alone, without bread or fries like I used to do.

> they do get boring after a while

Luckily for me they don't

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by fredsir on Sunday July 23, 2017 @05:36PM (#14834535)
No correlation sounds wrong. Which study is that?

As far as I know, the consensus is that dietary cholesterol doesn't affect ldl cholesterol as much as saturated fat, but it doesn't have "zero effect" either.

Eggs also have a lot of saturated fat. That's already two things affecting your ldl cholesterol levels in a bad way.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by DiThi on Sunday July 23, 2017 @06:53PM (#14834820)
> Which study is that?

One of the ones linked in this article, I don't remember which. https://lifeforbusypeople.com/2016/08/24/why-anti-fat-is-com...

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by et-al on Sunday July 23, 2017 @03:24PM (#14833922)
40 eggs/week seems excessive, regardless of the cholesterol or lack of. Is the rest of your diet still balanced and diverse?
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by charlesdm on Sunday July 23, 2017 @06:30PM (#14834760)
Indeed; imo anything that is consumed excessively can't be healthy. Whether that is eggs, meat, fish, veggies, etc. I'm not saying it's harmful -- just saying you need to find a balance. I personally eat about 4 to 8 eggs a week, so still a decent amount, in combination with plenty of other things.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by DiThi on Sunday July 23, 2017 @05:29PM (#14834503)
Not sure where that number came from. I eat about 25/week. And of course it has other things. Veggies, meat, ...
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by et-al on Monday July 24, 2017 @03:12PM (#14841673)
Ah it's from the other poster. Yeah 25/week isn't as worrisome.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by fghtr on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:28AM (#14831949)
Harvard School of Public Health [0] provides advices backed by research and the main points did not change already for a long time. Meat is only recommended in small portions as well as diary [1].

[0] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/

[1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-...

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by in_hindsight on Sunday July 23, 2017 @02:46PM (#14833734)
Thank you for these links
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by gaius on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:51AM (#14831823)
Thoughts ?

It doesn't matter - the underlying mechanism of all these diets is simply that ANY amount of thinking about what you eat is better than the default choice of just eating whatever's in front of you.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by Lewton on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:25AM (#14831937)
> Meat ? Bad unless it isnt. Dairy and Eggs ? Even worse except when it isnt. Vegan/vegetarian nutrition ? The worst except, you guessed it, when it isnt.

What's good for me might not be what's good for you.

Lifestyle, genetics, gut biome can all make a huge difference in the way your body reacts to different foods

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by Swizec on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:25AM (#14831757)
Eat stuff, exercise, measure results, adjust.

This stuff is extremely individual, unless we're talking extremes. Just do whatever makes your favorite KPI trend in the direction you want. Experiment. The rest is bullshit.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by adrianN on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:32AM (#14831779)
We don't have many biomarkers that can be measured cheaply and say something about your expected remaining healthspan.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by Swizec on Sunday July 23, 2017 @04:18PM (#14834174)
Don't weight and bodyfat% have high correlation to lifespan? You can get a good enough scale for both for pretty cheap.

Fitbits and such also measure resting heart rate for cheap. As far as I've heard, that correlates well to lifespan as well.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by adrianN on Monday July 24, 2017 @02:51AM (#14836351)
You can control your weight and bodyfat reasonably well on a diet that consists solely of Twinkies, so only measuring those won't tell you much about the quality of your diet.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by atopuzov on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:31AM (#14831773)
Exactly, find what suits you. I'm having great results with a low carb diet (been even keto for a period) but I'm not 100% sure it works for all.
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by charlesdm on Sunday July 23, 2017 @07:47AM (#14831817)
Worked great for me too, though I didn't have to lose a massive amount of weight (8kg). Just cutting back on sugar itself already does a ton -- nothing more than an addiction. :(
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by jm2721 on Sunday July 23, 2017 @02:17PM (#14833585)
I agree that there is a ton of misinformation floating around on the internet. Even legitimate nutritional research is notoriously difficult to conduct well. As you say, almost every diet has its benefits and supporting evidence. You will have people who claim that mostly vegetarian diets are best, and cite the Okinawans. Then you'll have the paleo crowd, who claims that you don't need fruits/vegetables at all and cite the Maasai. I think this comment pretty much sums it up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14813840.

If I were you, I'd steer clear of any sites that talk about 'toxins', 'detox', 'cleanses', or anything else like that as it's likely to be junk science. Juice cleanses can be particularly hazardous (I am honestly baffled that anybody would think drinking a ton of sugary juice is healthy). I was going to say look for articles that cite their sources, but even the medical literature can be cherry picked to support any hypothesis.

We still have a long way to go before we have nutritional advice that 1. Is actually correct, meaning it's heavily supported by scientific research and has been shown to work and 2. Is accepted mainstream. Until then, I think everyone can at least agree on a few things:

1. Don't eat sugar. Yes, natural alternatives like honey or agave are also sugar.

2. Don't eat refined, processed carbohydrates.

3. Don't eat trans fats.

I think correcting those will eliminate the majority of most peoples diet-related health issues. Everything else pales in comparison.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by Broken_Hippo on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:29AM (#14831954)
It seems the best thing is to be reasonable. For example, eat a variety of foods from different food groups. Try to expand your pallette. Eat a fair amount of fruit and veg. Ideally, whatever you eat will fit in your lifestyle.

For me, I found a few things (and I've actually lost weight and kept it off for years):

Mostly vegetarian works for me - I eat fish a couple times a month. I had gall bladder problems, though, and have had it taken out. This works well for my body and I like the food. I cook at home 95% of the time. I skip breakfast (I'm not hungry!). I use butter and cream. I also walk often.

Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by DiThi on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:08AM (#14831885)
A very big problem has been the misunderstanding of fat that people still have to this date, leading to glaring contradictions. This video (and the other videos of the channel) explains very well the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6-v37nOtY (text version and sources in the description)
Re:Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect meta... by dade_ on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:35AM (#14831977)
I appreciate the work that Daria Rose (Kevin's wife) has done with her book The Foodist and blog summer tomato. She had the same problem, but she is a Ph D and was looking for a project.