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Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by WillPostForFood on Friday July 21, 2017 @12:46AM (#14818123)
Looking at the most recent Steam Hardware & Software Survey, Linux share is at 0.72% and shrinking (a year ago it was 0.81% two years ago it was 0.89%).
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @12:47AM (#14818127)
I already pointed out multiple times, that Steam survey is useless for evaluating Linux gaming market. Why would Steam even need a survey? They have full stats available, but they aren't public.

And what's important is sales potential, which you can evaluate by sales percentages per OS for cross platform games. Steam doesn't publish such numbers. Humble Bundle does though.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by danieldk on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:56AM (#14818368)
I already pointed out multiple times, that Steam survey is useless for evaluating Linux gaming market. Why would Steam even need a survey? They have full stats available, but they aren't public.

I wouldn't be surprised if a survey actually overestimated the number of Linux users. Using Linux for gaming is a choice and usually a more difficult path than gaming on Windows. So, Linux users are likely move vocal about their use of Linux, for various reasons: (1) it's often a principled choice; (2) by showing that a significant chunk uses Linux, more gaming studios will target Linux.

tl;dr: it would be nice if Valve released actual stats, but I think the survey is a good ballpark figure. In other words, the market is pretty much non-existent.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by luca_ing on Friday July 21, 2017 @04:02AM (#14818841)
> usually a more difficult path than gaming on Windows

Just to speak against this notion (which absolutely used to be true, no contest there): anecdotally, I don't find that to be true anymore, at least using Steam.

It works really smoothly for me, just as on Windows. In fact I'm just about ready to drop Windows as a gaming plaform. Maybe some titles aren't available for Linux, but I still have enough to fall back on.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by sbarre on Friday July 21, 2017 @09:45AM (#14820476)
Perhaps by "difficult" here OP means "access to games" and not just setup.

If you choose to game on Linux, you are intentionally restricting the number of games you can play. And for some people that's obviously ok, but for most (as stats show), it's not ok.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:58AM (#14818376)
I wouldn't worry about total number of Steam users or their percentages. It's pretty irrelevant. What's more important, is potential of sales per OS. So for all intents and purposes, that survey is pretty useless. But numbers from HB are actually something you can evaluate.

> by showing that a significant chunk uses Linux, more gaming studios will target Linux.

That's already happening, if you paid attention.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by sbarre on Friday July 21, 2017 @09:47AM (#14820486)
You're being pretty confrontational here, and I don't think it's necessary..

No matter which way you slice it, the Linux gaming community is tiny when compared to Windows and consoles. Sure, it's growing, and there are more and more games coming to the OS, and more choices = better of course.

But we are a long way from Linux being a platform that matters in the overall computer gaming world.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @10:52AM (#14820987)
I'm not confrontational. I just prefer when those Steam numbers aren't used like some absolute indicator of some situation, and they often are. They aren't demonstrating sales potential, so developers shouldn't use them for evaluating viability of Linux releases.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by sbarre on Friday July 21, 2017 @11:25AM (#14821265)
Making statements like "if you paid attention" or calling people "desperate" is confrontational language, or at best unnecessarily harsh.

Linux gaming is obviously a subject that you hold dear - you've jumped in multiple times on almost every single top thread in this discussion - and that's ok, but ease off a bit..

Let your points stand on their own merit, you don't need to call people out because they're not as deeply informed on the subject matter as you are, or because they don't agree with your perspective.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @12:21PM (#14821721)
Statistics are often twisted around or taken out of context to make an argument, which is wrong. So don't get upset if that is dismissed to make conversation fact based, not speculation based. And this particular stats example is waved around often for that incorrect argumentation.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by WillPostForFood on Friday July 21, 2017 @02:27AM (#14818468)
Why would Steam even need a survey?

Because they need permission from the user to collect the data.

Even if the data is undercounting Linux (maybe Linux games are less likely to take the survey) the trend is consistently down for ~4 years now. So you might make a case that the size is bigger than the survey shows, but not that it is growing.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @02:36AM (#14818509)
Trend down doesn't mean the number of Linux gamers is decreasing. Even if you assume the survey is correct and representative, it can simply mean the number of Windows gamers on Steam is increasing faster. Besides, Linux gamers are less likely to use Steam than Windows ones (DRM-free preference).

From DRM-free stores, GOG unfortunately don't publish any stats, and stats from HB show pretty good Linux percentage.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by WillPostForFood on Friday July 21, 2017 @02:47AM (#14818557)
I agree, it only means the share is shrinking, not the absolute numbers. Given the large overall Steam growth rate, it is certain the absolute number has increased. Nonetheless, it isn't a great story for Linux gaming.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @03:03AM (#14818617)
I don't see how it's any story really. Steam grew. So? What's more relevant, is how much Linux gaming has grown. And it has quite a bit in the last several years.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by coldtea on Friday July 21, 2017 @03:11AM (#14818653)
OK, let's check back in 10 years.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @03:22AM (#14818687)
Sure, wait if you want to. I can play Linux games already today.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by coldtea on Friday July 21, 2017 @05:46AM (#14819211)
The question was "how many others do/would".

I can also play on my Windows box/console/Mac etc.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by oblio on Friday July 21, 2017 @04:01AM (#14818839)
> Even if you assume the survey is correct and representative, it can simply mean the number of Windows gamers on Steam is increasing faster.

Unlikely, as the PC market is basically stable or even shrinking slowly.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @04:12AM (#14818894)
It's not shrinking, it's just not growing very rapidly. Besides, gaming is only a small portion of PC market, so it has its own dynamics.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by maratc on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:16AM (#14818230)
When you purchase from Humble Bundle, they don't know what platform you would use to play. All they know is what platform you're buying from.

People who use their Android phones to purchase and pay Humble Bundle, get classified under "Linux". You can see big Linux platform numbers even for bundles that don't have a single Linux game.

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:45AM (#14818330)
But they give you an option to indicate it. Which isn't any worse than a survey, but focuses on actual sales in contrast to what Steam publishes.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by Armisael16 on Friday July 21, 2017 @10:27AM (#14820773)
Steam's survey reads the platform - the user has almost no role in actually filling it out beyond saying 'yes, you can collect this data'. This makes it significantly better than requiring each and every user to act to specify their platform.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @10:53AM (#14820996)
Steam survey isn't comprehensive. HB sales are counted for all users. So I'd say the later is actually useful, the former is just some oddity.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by vacri on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:30AM (#14818275)
Do they count SteamBoxes in the linux share?
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:56AM (#14818372)
From what I've heard - surprisingly not. I'm not using Steam though, so I can't say for sure.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by WillPostForFood on Friday July 21, 2017 @02:42AM (#14818539)
The survey doesn't show up when you are in big picture mode. Since Steam machines boot into big picture mode, they will never get the survey unless they switch over to desktop mode, which takes some effort. That would account for some of the Linux under counting.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @02:51AM (#14818572)
It just shows that Valve themselves don't take that survey seriously, if they don't even count specialized hardware targeted for SteamOS. So I wouldn't use those numbers for any far reaching conclusions.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by MachinShinn- on Friday July 21, 2017 @06:17AM (#14819289)
Nobody uses SteamOS or Linux for gaming. It baffles me that people like you go to such lengths to push Linux for Desktop...

I tried using Linux on several occassions over the last 10-15 years. It was never easy or fun. All the GUIs felt like they were from the 90s and nothing worked out of the box. I tried Ubunutu, Mint, Arch, and a few others. My last attempt at it was ~2014. Maybe I'll hate myself enough to try Linux again in a year or two...

Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by SmellyGeekBoy on Friday July 21, 2017 @07:46AM (#14819616)
It baffles me when people use the "I couldn't get it to work so it obviously doesn't work for anyone" argument, even in the face of statistics that prove otherwise. Ho hum.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @09:55AM (#14820547)
I suppose you should use it today, instead of making your impression on the times long ago, and claiming Linux isn't usable because of some long gone issues.
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by pantalaimon on Friday July 21, 2017 @10:36AM (#14820844)
Are there any SteamBoxes in existence that actually run SteamOS?
Re:“We currently have no plans to support Xwayland” by shmerl on Friday July 21, 2017 @12:26PM (#14821767)