News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by handedness on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:28PM (#14706638)
While I don't disagree, people said the same thing about Amazon.

The supermarkets have changed very little about the way they've done business in the last half-century, and as such I have a difficult time imagining them doing a good job executing on something like this.

I've also tested the majority of the meal and food delivery services out there, and my experience meshes well with the above: the local supermarket chain in some ways provides a better offering than anyone (as they should–you're absolutely right about that), but for a few years now they've persisted in making sure the actual execution is the worst I've experienced of any service. I can't see that changing until they completely overhaul their hiring practices and put sufficient processes in place to ensure good execution.

(For the record, Blue Apron strikes me as a pretty mediocre product at a pretty uninteresting price, executed in a pretty bad manner.)

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by trimbo on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:54PM (#14706793)
> The supermarkets have changed very little about the way they've done business in the last half-century, and as such I have a difficult time imagining them doing a good job executing on something like this.

I don't get what you mean by "ensure good execution" because it takes so little for grocers to successfully move into a market like Blue Apron's.

20 years ago, grocers destroyed the "fast casual roasted chicken" restaurants (Boston Market, Kenny Rogers Roasters) by simply buying chicken roaster machines and adding hot prepared food to the deli counter... and charging about a third the price. I'd hazard a guess that Safeway's chicken isn't as yummy[1] as Kenny Rogers' Roasters but that didn't stop anything.

So what about their execution is required here beyond "cheap and available where you already shop"? No one can use Blue Apron without a regular grocer in their routine already. Grocers successfully tapping into this higher margin product line seems inevitable, even if done with lower quality (is that what you mean?)

[1] - Or their neon sign as bright

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by handedness on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:19PM (#14706966)
> I don't get what you mean by "ensure good execution" because it takes so little for grocers to successfully move into a market like Blue Apron's.

It also took little more than a good website to compete with Amazon in the early days, but B&N/Borders/etc. never figured out a way to do it well.

What I want to do is order stuff with as little friction as possible, and have the right items delivered in a way that's convenient.

The chain delivery service we tried involved a few things:

1. A poor site experience. It had 'pantry' functionality, but it was anything but good. Putting together a large order took nearly as much time as doing it in person.

2. Delivery was scheduled during windows, windows that were often either missed, or perhaps worse, beat by many hours. They were often many hours outside the window. We eventually stopped including anything fresh in the order and would pick those up ourselves on days when we were hosting guests. That defeats much of the point.

It was like ordering groceries from the cable company.

3. We were able to select whether we'd want substitutions if something was unavailable. In virtually every order, we would either receive items (we didn't want) when we specified no substitutions, or didn't get substitutions when we wanted them. Often the substituted items were poorly chosen as stand-ins for what was unavailable.

4. It required a young male delivery guy to enter the home to deliver the items to the kitchen. It was a different person nearly every time. This is unacceptable for a number of reasons. Whenever substitution issues happened they seemed so disconnected from the process that it meant it never got better, and recourse took more time than it was worth.

Why a company with billions at its disposal and half a million employees can't get that right is somehow both a mystery, yet also a foregone conclusion.

While I seriously doubt Blue Apron poses much of a threat to the entrenched companies, I think someone else (perhaps Amazon) probably does.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by jon-wood on Thursday July 06, 2017 @03:11AM (#14708675)
Clearly the experience you had was terrible, but done well I find online grocery deliver far better. In the UK its been a thing for a long time and the stores have shaken out the issues.

Delivery slots are almost always adhered to, and if they're not the driver will call and tell you what's happening. Substitutions are pretty rare in my experience, and when they do happen you can refuse them at the door and the delivery driver will just remove it from your bill, I've also had more expensive items subbed in with no change to the amount I was charged. Drivers will generally ask if you want help, but will wait outside when asked.

Finally the web experience after a few orders is so much better than in store, and that's even with some awful UX in places. They track what you buy frequently and then show them as the first result in searches - I can do a full shop in twenty minutes or so now the site has been properly trained (they also feed loyalty card data in, so if you're already a frequent shopper with a chain its probably trained already).

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by celticninja on Thursday July 06, 2017 @03:58AM (#14708823)
Just to say that this is exactly experience too. I am amazed that US grocery stores don't offer it as standard especially as Asda are owned by Wal-Mart.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by dragonwriter on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:29PM (#14707023)
> It also took little more than a good website to compete with Amazon in the early days, but B&N/Borders/etc. never figured out a way to do it well.

Borders didn't try in the early days; when they got around to online retail, they outsourced it to Amazon. Much too late they tried their own...

B&N actually had a good website (it was always better than Amazon's for ordering books, IMO), they just weren't committed to competing with their own stores on price because the website was an "and, also..." not a bet-the-compaby deal.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by trimbo on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:26PM (#14707005)
Ah ok. So the execution you're speaking of is on the delivery aspect. That makes sense now. In terms of execution, I was thinking you meant purely of the food itself and leveraging the existing dominant consumer behavior (going to the grocery store)
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:41AM (#14708173)
Borders Toys r us, maybe Target? Outsourced their sites to Amazon for years. All to disastrous results. Can't count Borders vs Amazon.

Barnes & Noble gave a decent try, to this day maybe (haven't been on for a few years). They even got domains like books.com 20 years ago. But they would do the annoying thing many retailers did - consider the website secondary to their brick & mortar. Price things differently online, not accept an online price in-store and vice versa. B&N years later even did a decent job with the Nook. It still didn't get them anywhere.

--

Which service did you use? I only know of Peapod in the US for big grocery chains. The prices were high. Though when they had items for sale, the cost would be equal to their in store cost or slightly lower. I never had an issue telling them to drop my stuff at my doorstep after the first time when I didn't want them to come inside. Each time I placed a big box or two at my doorstep for them to place my order into. I used Peapod maybe 15 times, on and off, between 2007-2010. That's ages ago for web times.

The big window range was annoying though later on they let you spend a bit extra to make it smaller. Rarely did they miss the time window I set. This all took place in central Jersey.

It felt figured out enough to me a decade ago. Maybe I'm an exception.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by ams6110 on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @09:48PM (#14707615)
> young male delivery guy ... This is unacceptable

Why? Husbands/boyfriends think their housewife might be tempted?

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by yoshamano on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @11:29PM (#14707965)
I'm going to wager that they were trying to hint at both the inexperience of youth, and a different person each time so you can't build up a relationship with them. The kind of relationship where they remember the last 3 orders they've delivered to them have been wrong, and they then check the order themselves before they leave the warehouse/store.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:43AM (#14708181)
The poster specifically said male. That had to be intentional (my wager). am6110 was right imo with pointing out the gender, but their comment was clearly not written well at all.

I ageee with everything else about building a relationship regardless of age or gender of the delivery person.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by lovich on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:14AM (#14708088)
To be fair to ams6110, the op went out of his way to specify the gender of the delivery person.

I had the same problem with these services and having yet to have a single person deliver to me twice over 4 years, but that's regardless of whether they are a man,woman, or any other gender

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by mercer on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:45AM (#14709382)
I'd say the charitable interpretation is that the poster believes that 'male' is salient because males are generally more clueless in regards to grocery shopping.

From experience I'd agree that this is a correct observation, but perhaps a risky one to make considering recent discussions (among other things).

Again though, the charitable interpretation is that the poster did not really think about this statement too much, did not intend to cause offense, and might be quite open to the viewpoint that men are actually great at grocery shopping and assuming otherwise - however harmless it may seem to some people - is to be avoided.

I can't speak for anything else but I've become convinced that I should assume the charitable interpretation. If even writing this is considered an example of 'privilege' or sweeping real issues under the table, I truly and honestly want this to be pointed out and I'll seriously consider it in the progression of my personal views on these matters.

This is a bit of a sidenote, by the way, and not a direct response to your comment. I've just been thinking a bunch about all this lately, and your comment seemed a good a place as any to express myself :).

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by dragonwriter on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:59PM (#14706828)
> So what about their execution is required here beyond "cheap and available where you already shop"?

It's not 20 years ago, and “online for home delivery” is increasingly where people already shop. And, it's easy to displace a business that requires a trip out with one that requires a trip out, but one you were likely taking already. Harder to do that with something that doesn't require a trip out at all.

> No one can use Blue Apron without a regular grocer in their routine already.

Yes, you can. Cooking oil, salt, and black pepper—the only ingredients BA doesn't usually supply—don't require a traditional grocery or even one of the limited-area perishable delivery services to acquire. If BA is your only home cooking, you literally never need to enter a traditional grocery store, or order from a similar full-grown online delivery service. Google Express or Amazon in one of the areas where they don't have grocery delivery will work fine.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by emodendroket on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @11:04PM (#14707875)
A life where Blue Apron is literally the only food you eat at home besides takeout seems dystopian.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by pmiller2 on Thursday July 06, 2017 @04:00AM (#14708829)
What sounds dystopian about it? Honestly, I think the amount of takeout that would be involved is more revolting to me than Blue Apron. My ex and I subscribed to Blue Apron for several months (I think 3 meals a week, but maybe it was only 2). In all that time, there was only one meal that we didn't particularly care for, and I think we might have screwed up preparing it. We found the recipes to be top notch and the ingredients to be very good (although the amount of garlic they ended up sending us got excessive after a while).

It was a great experience for us. I would recommend it.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:48AM (#14708202)
Always these comments :p. Obviously we both know the poster was just making a point that you could possibly do Blue Apron only for home meals.

I don't care for food. I know most people do. Most people care about variety and possibly some sort of cooking sometimes. I do cook chicken in bulk, but that's a pretty quick process. Otherwise I'm perfectly satisfied having the same 2 meals whenever I am at home for those meal times. One of them includes Soylent, the other includes 1-2 glasses of milk.

I can still go out and enjoy social lunch or dinner with business acquaintances or friends.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by jimmywanger on Thursday July 06, 2017 @02:28AM (#14708531)
If you don't care about food, why are you responding?

The only value adds Blue Apron gives are pre-portioning, recipes, and delivery.

That might not be worth 594 million (at last count).

Simply because you don't care about food doesn't mean nobody else does - in fact, you said that most people do care about food.

Exactly what value does your comment add to the conversation?

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Thursday July 06, 2017 @03:41AM (#14708768)
I responded to someone saying Blue Apron for home meals seems dystopian. How is my comment not relevant or adding on to the conversation? Blue Apron for your home meals does not seem dystopian to me. I'm replying to that notion.

That answers both of your quite condescending questions.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @12:11AM (#14741522)
Guess you never wanted to let us know how your comment added any value to the conversation, huh? Or why you responded?
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by magic_beans on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:41PM (#14711693)
It just sounds sad, honestly. Cooking is not hard, and it can be downright easy with just a small amount of ingredients and whimsy. There are hundreds of dishes you can make in a single pot! There are fantastic recipes with three ingredients.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by icebraining on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:53PM (#14711813)
Blue Apron is a meal-kit. You're still the one cooking.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by ryanlol on Thursday July 06, 2017 @01:03AM (#14708256)
What about only takeout? That seems fairly normal.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by magic_beans on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:44PM (#14711721)
There is so much added oil and salt in takeout food, not to mention low-quality, cost-saving ingredients.

Not a healthy option for everyday meals.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by emodendroket on Thursday July 06, 2017 @08:15AM (#14709762)
That seems pretty bad as well.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by emodendroket on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @11:03PM (#14707874)
I wish they would have ripped off Boston Market's meatloaf instead.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by sharkmerry on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:51PM (#14706773)
>> While I don't disagree, people said the same thing about Amazon.

just to play devil's avocado, Amazon's advantage was not having the overhead of stores, now they just purchased whole foods. Seems as if they are moving towards being a supermarket

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by handedness on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:11PM (#14706902)
Sorry, I was referring to how it was obvious to so many that Barnes & Noble and Borders would crush this fledgling website founded by the kook who set out in a van to compete with them.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @09:28PM (#14707532)
> Sorry, I was referring to how it was obvious to so many that Barnes & Noble and Borders would crush this fledgling website founded by the kook who set out in a van to compete with them.

I remember Amazon's launch quite well, and I don't remember any of that sentiment. The first time I used Amazon I remember thinking "Wow, books are the perfect thing to sell online." I feel like it's become part of a standard origin mythology to play up the founder as "some kook with a crazy dream" that everyone else thought was insane. I think that's rarely the case, and is instead played up in an effort of founder worship.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by code_duck on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:03AM (#14708051)
There was some of that... generally, skepticism that internet startups would become large enough to challenge businesses like Walmart, ever. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericjackson/2015/09/24/revisiti...

And also people saying things like tiny businesses of people with bookstores in their spare time will make Amazon obsolete... https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/02/26/opinion/foreign-affair...

Ah, Thomas Friedman. Thanks for the advice to not buy amazon stock in 1999.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by imron on Thursday July 06, 2017 @01:21AM (#14708308)
Out of curiosity, I went to have a look at AMZN's stock price at the date the article was published, to see how the stock price during the heady heights of the dotcom bubble compared to today.

Interestingly, if you view the entire stock history price chart, the dotcom bubble is barely a blip.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by sokoloff on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:07AM (#14709474)
IMO, the right way to look at long-term performance of an investment is on a semi-log chart. (Day or week charts, I prefer linear; anything 3 month or longer, I prefer semi-log.)

Semi-log (where constant percentage changes are constant-sized), it's more than a blip. Linear (where constant dollar changes are constant-sized) charting hides past market moves if the overall bias has been up and exaggerates past market moves if the overall bias has been down. This can lead investors to improperly discount the pain/gain cycle that happened over that time period.

Linear charting: http://bit.ly/2tk5Ulj

Semi log: http://bit.ly/2sJs7ec

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by code_duck on Thursday July 06, 2017 @03:37PM (#14713224)
Now that I also actually take a look, while his theory has not panned out the way he thought, it is true that Amazon would have been a poor investment for most of the decade following 2000.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:56AM (#14708227)
I agree with hn_throwaway_. Amazon having no chance in people's eyes and being discarded by everyone seems to be an exaggeration.

I wasn't even in middle school/junior high when I and some other classmates started using Amazon. We loved using it for getting books. There was no weirdness about it. In fact, in my memories, using Amazon was completely normal and seemed like a good idea. This would be in 2000 and 2001.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by taysic on Thursday July 06, 2017 @01:08AM (#14708270)
Obvious to a young person like you. Clearly Amazon understood their market. But it was not obvious to entrenched businesses and all investors. Even Warren Buffet admits he made a mistake about Google.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by skinnymuch on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @12:10AM (#14741518)
Warren Buffett said those things very recently. He has always been against most tech and web companies because he doesn't understand the space. Buffett was already entering his 70s once the dot com bubble burst and you could look at companies in a better sense. I can see a good example being used. I don't think Buffett is one though.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by dilemma on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @10:14PM (#14707712)
Amazon's digital/technological backend lets them put WF retail spaces to more productive use, so it's still an asset and not a liability.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by Gaelan on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:18PM (#14706962)
> devil's avocado

I can imagine the headlines. “AVOCADO TOAST FAD MAY BE LINKED TO DEVIL WORSHIP”

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by pkulak on Thursday July 06, 2017 @01:47AM (#14708398)
A store in my area (Fred Meyer) that sells about everything, recently started pushing this service where you shop online and then pull into this special parking space where someone brings you your stuff and loads it into your trunk. I thought it was a great idea, so at about 3 I loaded everything I needed for dinner into my online shopping cart and went to check out. Turns out the earliest they could have it ready for me was the next day. I wasn't even expecting to have to pick a time frame at all. I figured I would just see some message about it being ready in 30 minutes, or some other short time frame.

You'd be amazed at how good entrenched companies are at completely failing to understand what their competitive advantage even is, let alone using it.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by ghaff on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:21AM (#14709525)
Hannafords has a service like this too though I haven't looked into it. Seems sort of a limited use case for me. But at a minimum needs to be, if not ready in an hour, at least order at lunch and swing by on the way home.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by magic_beans on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:47PM (#14711753)
Wow that's upsetting! Home Depot and Bloomingdale's are both really good about same-day pickup of online orders.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by arethuza on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:21AM (#14709286)
"The supermarkets have changed very little about the way they've done business in the last half-century"

UK supermarkets seem to have made huge changes, online shopping and delivery is really common, self scanning (which I always use), loyalty points used across multiple vendors (e.g. getting points for paying utility bills), "metro" urban stores etc.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by tomw2005 on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:51AM (#14709403)
While that is all true Amazon Fresh has completely blown that out of the water for me. Though it is only available in Greater London atm.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by arethuza on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:24AM (#14709536)
What are the benefits of Amazon Fresh?

Edit: I'm not doubting that there are some - just wondering how it differentiates itself from other players in this market, particularly when Amazon isn't a brand I associate with product quality.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by sheri on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:11PM (#14706905)
> While I don't disagree, people said the same thing about Amazon.

The difference to me is that Amazon competed aggressively on price and selection. You could get books or items which you just couldn't get in a local Borders. You could also get the same item significantly cheaper than a Borders or Barnes and Noble.

Blue Aprons value lies in the recipe and the convenience of having all the ingredients picked out for you, but charges a significant premium. I would like this as a way to try new recipes or expand my range (e.g. I don't stock ingredients/spices etc at home for Chinese food), but not as my go-to option for daily meals.

It may not be as easy for someone like whole-foods or Safeway to generate recipes, efficiently package/put-together ingredients etc, but I also feel the value addition is much less than someone like Amazon's was: More items and much cheaper.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by emodendroket on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @11:05PM (#14707878)
All they need to do is parter with/acquire something like AllRecipes and then they're pretty much set.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @10:19PM (#14707724)
> The supermarkets have changed very little about the way they've done business in the last half-century...

You really should visit a Wegmans.

Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by just4themoney on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @10:57PM (#14707849)
And pretty much every grocery store on the East Coast... they are all scrambling to play "follow the leader" with Wegmans.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by emodendroket on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @11:06PM (#14707880)
I've visited a few times and I'm not sure what's so special.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by ghaff on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:10AM (#14709486)
I'll add to what others have said that, for anyone vaguely interested in quality and variety of food, a grocery store of 50 years ago would be this ocean of poor quality produce, canned food, Wonder bread, etc. A lot of that is the transformation of US food supply chains but grocery stores are part of that.
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by leesalminen on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:13PM (#14706922)
Do you have any recommendations on similar services? We tried Blue Apron and found that their only shipping options were FedEx Home (consistently arrives after 10PM) and OnTrac (consistently isn't delivered at all).
Re:Blue Apron falls 9% on fourth day as a public company by handedness on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @07:23PM (#14706988)
None that we found good enough to stick with, unfortunately. The market still feels wide open.

Aside: I've never heard a single good thing about OnTrac.