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Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by friedman23 on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:50PM (#14698529)
What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests.

It's been 17 years since the internet has become widespread, how many successful information technology companies have come from Europe, a continent with 500 million people, many of them well educated? Maybe it's time to look inward.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by pilsetnieks on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:55PM (#14698570)
There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user. You don't have to ride roughshod over regulations and worker protections to be innovative and thriving.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by bogomipz on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:38PM (#14698774)
>"There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user"

Could you say what those are? I agree you don't need to ride roughshod on regulations to be innovative.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by ueroc on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @07:41PM (#14699018)
http://tech.eu/features/2501/european-transportation-startup...

Of course many taxi companies will have their own apps.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by imrehg on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:59PM (#14698593)
I'd be curious to know any examples that really bring the same benefits (usability and features mostly, less about the price), I was looking for them, and couldn't find any (e.g. in London at the moment). Otherwise it's just hand waving argument...
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by jerven on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:19PM (#14698697)
I use both Uber and TaxiPhone app in Geneva Switzerland. The taxi phone app is better because it is more honest, no fake cars in the TaxiPhone app driving "in the middle of lake geneva (along the pedestrian ferry routes)" while the Uber app has dubious arrival times and while payment is straightforward nothing about the app is really better.

While the taxiphone app is branded Geneva it also works in other cities. Basically, it is a locally branded app but the infra is in 42 cities/regions and works in the "foreign" ones.

Uber is a bit cheaper during the night, but not always during the day and certainly not during rush hours in the city center.

Address search could be a bit better but otherwise it is as good as the uber one. At least it doesn't have this annoying inbuilt Dev recruitment tool, that stupidity almost ruined the day of a blind developer I know.

When booking a ride ahead of time e.g. to the airport with family the taxiphone website is best. You can arrange child seats etc.. and they will have them and arrive on time.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by alkonaut on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:19PM (#14698704)
Stockholm has dozens of taxi companies and strict regulations (special training required etc, safety and insurance regulations, etc).

All the major companies, perhaps the top 10 - have apps with pre-paying and hailing or pre-booking in the app.

I haven't called a taxi by phone or hailed one on the street for years. I can't find when the first company launched their app, but I'm pretty sure I hadn't heard the name Uber when they did (which doesn't mean Uber weren't first - just that I hadn't heard of them because they didn't exist in Sweden then).

There are obviously no taxi medallions or similar, so anyone is free to start a taxi service and the cost for doing so is low. Usually you'd join one of the bigger players to be connected to a booking central and app service but you can just get a license and start driving.

So the bottom line is - in ANY city where there isn't a US-style medallion bureaucracy surrounding taxis I just don't see the point of Uber. Uber is Taxi. If there are 100 taxi companies with apps, then with Uber they are 101.

US cities (and others worldwide) should just buy back all medallions at the last transfer price and then allow free competition.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by will_brown on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:04PM (#14698623)
As a member of the tech/HN community it's very easy to take your position about laws benefiting the entrenched market incumbents, but you can't ignore tech has those very same lobbying/legal protections.

For example, take the New York market with the limited number of taxi medallions, prior to Uber there was stricter regulation and enforcement against individual drivers illegally operating rides for hire. Though when Uber comes along they facilitate these types of illegal ride for hire operations all over the country, even in many jurisdictions where Uber drivers are arrested for illegal operations Uber itself never has to answer for their roll they simply pay a lawyer of their choice to represent the drivers in these cases in order to protect Uber's interest not the driver.

Apply the same organization to any other illegal activity (drugs, prostitution, etc...) it becomes clear very quick Uber has been legally protected even though their driver continue(d) collecting fines and arrests.

And all these great US internet companies you speak of I'm pretty sure are global companies and have global headquarters in Europe (Ireland) specifically in order to avoid pay US taxes, but again are protected by laws designed to protect their entrenched interests.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by bogomipz on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:36PM (#14698764)
You start by saying "the New York market" which presumably you mean New York City by citing taxi medallions. Then you say

>"when Uber comes along they facilitate these types of illegal ride for hire operations all over the country"

How did you go from Uber operating in NYC resulting in "facilitating illegal ride for hire operations all over the country in your next sentence?" Uber didn't start in NYC. I don't see the connection, can you explain?

Illegal ride for hire in NYC are what are informally known as "Gypsy Cabs"(not a politically correct term but its not mine term.) I have not seen or heard any evidence that the presence of these has increased with the introduction of Uber. Please provide a citation.

I am quite doubtful that given the availability now of Uber/Lyft along with the already existing licensed yellow cabs, green cabs and livery cabs that people are at all inclined to elect to take an unlicensed cab.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by stale2002 on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:08PM (#14698644)
The USA has some of the same regulations, sure, but when it became clear that they were outdated, most cities got rid of them.

You can get an uber in any major city in the USA, now.

The best way to get rid of bad laws is to break them.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by izacus on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:59PM (#14698588)
I think we'll be fine without "innovation" that's innovate exclusively by breaking basic safety and labour laws.

Taxi services across EU (at least in my experience) are usually of significanly better quality than those in US. Well, at least I've yet to meet a cab smelling of piss and shit as opposed to SF.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by icebraining on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @04:55AM (#14700851)
Which basic safety laws have Uber broken in the EU?
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by izacus on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @05:18AM (#14700944)
Depending on the country - requirement for driver to have a commercial driving license, first aid training and more detailed car safety checks required for taxi services.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by alkonaut on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:28PM (#14698737)
Names such as Battlefield, Candy Crush, Angry Birds and Minecraft are known internationally now, right?

There are more studios per capita in the nordics than anywhere else. Obviously the games industry is just one niche but those are examples of somewhat successful companies.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by celticninja on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:51PM (#14698544)
It's not anti American though, it just so happens that US firms are the first of these types of companies. The rulings that are set apply to all companies equally so Chinese and European firms are bound by the same rules.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by ballenf on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:54PM (#14698558)
True: it's just anti-progress or at least anti-anything-that-doesn't-fit-a-hundred-plus-year-old-notion-of-how-things-should-work.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:01PM (#14698606)
anti-worker, anti-customer, anti-morals. Let Uber die by a thousand cuts.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by stale2002 on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:11PM (#14698656)
Pro-consumer.

Consumers overwhelming support ridesharing because of how cheap it is.

Also, if a consumer doesn't like these service, they are free to use any number of other transportation services.

That is what this fight is about. Letting consumers decide for themselves which services they prefer.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:32PM (#14698751)
Consumers would support slavery if it was legal, hence labor laws and regulations. Just because you're a tech platform doesn't mean you're a special snowflake.

Consumers may choose from any service that follows regulations set forth by government.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by celticninja on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @02:29AM (#14700314)
Here's the thing, you can be pro-consumer without being anti-worker. Uber just haven't figured out how to do that.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by friedman23 on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:58PM (#14698587)
My comment was less about this specific ruling and more about the trend. In the US, uber was practically illegal just like Europe. The US made it legal (or looked the other way) while Europe (and much of the rest of the world) decided to clamp down on the service with regulations without ever reflecting on whether the laws themselves were beneficial in the first place.

At least in the US, much of the fear mongering over the possible outcomes of Uber drivers not being properly licensed never came to pass.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by gsnedders on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:03PM (#14698620)
Note there's all kinds of regulations affecting taxis in Europe: some have clamped down heavily, and others Uber operates totally above the law in.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by celticninja on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @04:18AM (#14700711)
Do you mean within the law? Evidently they have acted like they are above the law in most jurisdictions until legal rulings have required them to comply.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by gsnedders on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @10:48AM (#14702792)
Uh, yes!
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by the_mitsuhiko on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:05PM (#14698630)
It just depends on how the company deals with it. AirBnB for instance is working with regulators which cannot be said about Uber.
Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by sharkmerry on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:47PM (#14706748)
Perhaps the laws in the US are too lenient?

-Facebook makes it nearly impossible to delete your account permanently or reactivates on accidental clicks from 3rd party websites(which increases their metrics),

-You can be opted in for email messaging without you opting in explicitly (increases advertising companies "reach"),

-Uber just ignored regulations it didnt like, or would be detrimental to their bottom line if they actually followed them.

This mentality is wholly rewarded in the US, that isnt necessarily a good thing.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by collyw on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:07PM (#14698637)
http://tech.eu/features/186/ignorance-is-remiss/

MySQL is another one not on that list but I guess thats because Oracle bought them over.

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by supergirl on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:52PM (#14698550)
> innovative businesses

what's innovative about pirate taxis? they're as old as taxis

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by Oletros on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @05:58PM (#14698585)
> As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies

Any example of those laws and regulations?

Re:Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case by kochthesecond on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @06:03PM (#14698614)
I am inclined to agree with you, but most of EU countries had working alternatives to Uber, albeit more local, that DO follow the law.

It seems like the state of taxi services in the US somehow self regulated out competition?