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Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by atmosx on Sunday July 02, 2017 @01:04PM (#14683284)
That's never going to happen. Currencies are enforced and controlled by central, powerful authorities (the state). Institutions like central banks (or the FED) try to control inflation and/or deflation. In a time of prospering, the obvious goal for a central banker should be to have a mildly deflationary currency. That is because central bankers want consumers to spend their money today and not wait for tomorrow (hoarding).

Now bitcoin has built-in a hard limit. Which makes the currency, inherently inflationary. I have no evidence, but I believe that this was a strategic choice by Satoshi. Why would you buy a currency made out of cpu cycles, with no backing if not for it's future value? Without being a state (e.g. selling trust) or having huge amounts of gold to back up a new currency, the only reason someone would wanna buy it, is indeed, the future value that could hold. Hence, Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency can work as an asset but not as a currency given the current design.

Y. Varoufakis, spoke of a centralised digital currency in his solution for the Greek crisis. That could be a digital currency, that anyone can use. But was a fully controlled digital currency issued in the form of IOUs by the state.

NOTE: Talking about adoption of a decentralised currency a-la bitcoin, by a state or group of states to replace entities like the FED or the ECB shows a poor understanding of the most basic principles of the financial systems.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by zwily on Sunday July 02, 2017 @02:15PM (#14683656)
Don't you mean mildly inflationary? I believe the US fed aims for 1-2% inflation. Or did I misunderstand?

Similarly, bitcoin is deflationary because of the fixed supply.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by atmosx on Sunday July 02, 2017 @05:09PM (#14684358)
Yes tha is correct. I meant deflationary for bitcoin and inflationary for the USD
Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by kaleidic on Sunday July 02, 2017 @06:16PM (#14684630)
Money has three functions : unit of account, store if value, medium of exchange. Cryptocurrency isn't great at the first two, but if we presume the scaling problems will be solved then it is pretty good at the latter because it doesn't require you to trust the banking system. So there is an unbundling of the functions of money described by Eugene Fama originally and then tidied up and better articulated by Tyler Cowen and Randall Kroszner in their book on the New Monetary Economics in about 1992.

Its completely irrelevant what the price of Bitcoin is for its usefulness as a medium of exchange.

This medium of exchange aspect is very important because it makes banks no longer special since its possible in time to make payments without a banking system. Thus the role of the state in regulating banks can disappear eventually - no deposit insurance, no bailouts and no too big to fail.

Credit can be provided by funds because the information asymmetry of banks no longer applies when you can port your banking records via API.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by taysic on Sunday July 02, 2017 @07:53PM (#14684949)
I think its a much better store of value (because of the lack of influence from banks) than a medium of exchange. It's very slow, has high fees (currently) and to buy the vast majority of goods you will eventually need to change it back into your own country's currency which will require your bank anyway. Unless I'm missing something...

"This medium of exchange aspect is very important because it makes banks no longer special since its possible in time to make payments without a banking system."

Most people don't want to have the whole of their wealth reliant on a hash they could lose though. They want to be able to talk to "customer service" if they need to.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by MarkMc on Sunday July 02, 2017 @09:30PM (#14685325)
> Without being a state (e.g. selling trust) or having huge amounts of gold to back up a new currency, the only reason someone would wanna buy it, is indeed, the future value that could hold

Are you saying that gold can be a currency but Bitcoin cannot?

> Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency can work as an asset but not as a currency given the current design.

Why can't it be both? If I expect my Bitcoin to appreciate 5% per year I might be willing to spend it to buy my weekly groceries.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by atmosx on Monday July 03, 2017 @02:18AM (#14686211)
> Are you saying that gold can be a currency but Bitcoin cannot?

No.

> Why can't it be both? If I expect my Bitcoin to appreciate 5% per year I might be willing to spend it to buy my weekly groceries.

You might be or might not be. I assure you, the majority will not be willing to buy groceries using a deflationary currency. They'll switch to an inflationary currency instead.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by MarkMc on Monday July 03, 2017 @03:16AM (#14686463)
>> Are you saying that gold can be a currency but Bitcoin cannot?

> No.

Hmm... so gold cannot be a currency?

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by atmosx on Monday July 03, 2017 @06:27AM (#14687221)
We'd have a succinct conversation if you'd take the time to express what's on your mind instead of playing around with questions. I feel you're trying to make a point but I can't tell what it is :-)

I'll bite the bullet though:

> Hmm... so gold cannot be a currency?

Everything can be a currency. Ascorbic acid could be a currency in the future if the humankind moves to planets where Citreae are hard to find.

If I'm not mistaken, the topic was about the effectiveness of bitcoin as a currency.

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by MarkMc on Monday July 03, 2017 @11:03AM (#14688733)
My point is that gold has similar properties to Bitcoin. That is, there is limited supply, very limited government control and many people treat it as a store of value.

You said earlier that "Currencies are enforced and controlled by central, powerful authorities". There is no central authority for gold yet it has been a currency for thousands of years. You seem to accept the special status of gold by implying that a cryptocurrency could be effective as a currency if it was backed by gold. So my question is what makes gold so special? Why can't the current design of cryptocurrencies be just like gold, only more convenient?

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by atmosx on Monday July 03, 2017 @11:59AM (#14689212)
> My point is that gold has similar properties to Bitcoin.

I see, the correct version would be: Fiat currencies [...].

> My point is that gold has similar properties to Bitcoin.

I agree with your point.

> Why can't the current design of cryptocurrencies be just like gold, only more convenient?

Cryptocurrencies are a lot like gold. But as you said, gold is around for centuries. Can you bet 10 million USD that bitcoin will be around next year?

Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by networkguy on Sunday July 02, 2017 @03:53PM (#14684044)
Deflationary is what you meant.
Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by arisAlexis on Sunday July 02, 2017 @07:42PM (#14684902)
You should make some research on Varoyfakis, his lies and failures before quoting him. His disastrous game charged my country 100billions more and banks are still closed.
Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by foobarchu on Sunday July 02, 2017 @08:23PM (#14685045)
I don't think OP was supporting the actions one way or another, but objectively stating information that is relevant to OP's question. It's relevant because it's a case of cryptocurrency working it's way into the 'real world'. It was never implemented, so the only important thing here is that someone who a lot of people listen to actually proposed using cryptocurrency, politics don't factor into it.
Re:Ask HN: When will cryptocurrencies be currency? by arisAlexis on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @08:35AM (#14701876)
I get your point I am just saying that he is a known political clown and that would never be implemented so it's just as good as you and me devising a plan like that.