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Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by gregmac on Thursday June 29, 2017 @09:51AM (#14663282)
> When we strike back, does Russia then strike back again? What does it look like after four or five volleys? Will entire power grids be down for days or weeks? Will the stock market crash?

And at what point, after "cyber-damaging" some piece of critical infrastructure (and/or harming/killing people), does the the other side run out of exploits and just launch actual missiles instead?

Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by pjc50 on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:54AM (#14664260)
This is an under-appreciated point. We've forgotten all the old hard Cold War lessons about escalation.

What we are seeing now is a huge expansion of deniable and proxy warfare. Everyone is still (I hope) clear that sending an actual tank division across the Polish/Ukraine border would be met with nukes. So the question is, what is the largest most damaging attack that can be carried out without reprisal, and how do the participants find this out?

And of course, the ultimate in deniable attacks is one carried out by the enemy's own forces. Did cyberwarfare crash a US destroyer into a cargo ship? (Almost certainly not, but maybe next time). SWAT-ing is already established as a tactic; could suitably forged communications or "fake news" disseminated via the President lead to the SWAT-ing of a country? There are some suggestions that this applies to the Qatar situation.

Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by inetknght on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:46PM (#14665300)
> Everyone is still (I hope) clear that sending an actual tank division across the Polish/Ukraine border would be met with nukes.

Only if those tanks are under foreign flags. If they're under "rebel" flags, then nobody cares.

Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by pyrale on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:27PM (#14665096)
> SWAT-ing of a country

Iraq comes to mind, although the forged information came from the invading country's own services.

Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by marcosdumay on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:16PM (#14665592)
That should come as a hint that state actors are not the only ones capable of deploying informational weapons.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by pjc50 on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:10PM (#14665527)
I think Ahmed Chalabi played a key role there as well, and there are suggestions that he was an Iranian agent.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by cuckcuckspruce on Thursday June 29, 2017 @04:03PM (#14666409)
There's no denying that Ahmed Chalabi was an Iranian agent of influence, but whether he was working for the Iranian clandestine services is unknown.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by devrandomguy on Thursday June 29, 2017 @10:06AM (#14663397)
Do these missiles require a working communications network? If this goes on long enough, there might not be any way to launch them.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by mortenjorck on Thursday June 29, 2017 @10:57AM (#14663799)
I know not with what weapons the first world cyberwar will be fought, but I know the second will be fought with floppy disks.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by rjsw on Thursday June 29, 2017 @10:13AM (#14663455)
Why do you think that different countries have put missiles in submarines ?
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by SCHiM on Thursday June 29, 2017 @10:21AM (#14663501)
And Russia reportedly even has a deadmans-switch that can be triggered by seismic activity on Russian soil and rapid changes in air pressure. I'd presume that such a system is not connected to the internet.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by TeMPOraL on Thursday June 29, 2017 @10:23AM (#14663520)
All of those systems predate the Internet, so you bet nuclear capabilities will not be affected much by cyber attacks.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by graedus on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:33AM (#14664093)
Nuclear capabilities will probably not be affected much by cyber attacks over the internet. There are other vectors, but they obviously require a much more serious investment in espionage, spycraft, etc.
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by pjc50 on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:46AM (#14664181)
Isn't this literally the denoument of Dr Strangelove?
Re:Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons by mrkgnao on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:19PM (#14664464)